House sale & Ex woes...

[ST270]

Any property / family solicitors online? I shall try to be brief;

My g/f of 7 years owns a property with her Ex - the mortgage is entirely in her name (the ex cannot get lending so cannot buy her out) and she no longer lives in the house. The house was significantly developed whilst they were together which the Ex had a big part in as he is in the building trade. Thus, legally he has a registered interest in the property.

The Ex lives there and he pays the mortgage, (albeit he pays my partner the money when he feels like it and usually late so she has to pay the mortgage upfront so that it doesn't go into arrears.) He is totally unreasonable and will not discuss the sale of house unless it is via a solicitor. So Solicitors have been appointed on both sides to handle a sale of the house. An agreement was drawn up where the ex would take advice from the estate agent (who he chose) on when to drop the price of the house until sold - with a view to selling within 8-12 months max - giving him sufficient time to find other accommodation.

So far the house has been on the market for 18 months and has been dropped in price only twice with a limited number of viewings (I believe 4 in this time) The agent advises that it be dropped in price again however her Ex has a home rights notice lodged on the house which prevents my g/f from making any decisions without his agreement (he requested this notice against the advise of his own solicitor) What this means is that he can spin out any decisions on the the sale of the house for as long as he likes - all the while living in a lovely property that effectively he doesn't own.

His latest letter via solicitor completely ignores and sidesteps what has been agreed prior and he is failing to address the progression of the house sale.

Until this house is sold we cannot move on with our lives it is a huge burden and we need to know what options are left - short of going through voluntary repossession which is messy we are struggling to think of the next step....

I appreciate that this is very long-winded and there will be lots of areas which will need clarifying, however sometimes banding ideas about can help.

[illmonkey]

So she pays the mortgage, it's in her name. It's nothing to do with him, he's a tentant. kick him out, sell.

[Claudia Skies]

With the best will in the world I don't think any useful suggestions can be made without detailed information so you're probably best pursuing the legal end privately with your solicitor.

At the practical end of things,

• What is the realistic selling value of house, net after paying estate agent etc?
• What is the current amount of mortgage outstanding?
• House was presumably in your g/f sole name if hers is the sole name on the mortgage?
• Ex has subsequently obtained a legally registered interest. What proportion of house does he now own?
• Is there theoretically a split of the mortgage repayments or is he supposed to be paying it all?

....all of which would be relevant to the possibility of HER buying HIM out (with your assistance or by increasing the mortgage) and then selling the house. Because let's face it, if he won't sell to her he probably doesn't intend to sell to anyone at all. Which again brings you back to pursuing it through the solicitor.

[ST270]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

The moral thing to do would be to make the guy an offer to move out and get the house sold. Particularly as it was an arrngement entered into with the best long term intentions. He thinks you want to sell up and pocket his money to fund your new life and personally i e-sympathise with this view.

[Claudia Skies]

ST270 said:

The house was bought by them both from the outset following a previous house development which they made money on. He was out of work, claiming benefits and therefore unable to be included on the mortgage.

Have a missed something here? Why could he not be "included on the mortgage"? I've not previously heard of a situation where the bank doesn't want both the joint owners "on the hook" for the mortgage irrespective of whether they are both in work. Put simply, the mortgage is secured over the property. If the property is in joint ownership then both joint owners have to sign the mortgage, otherwise the bank doesn't get the rights that it needs.

ST270 said:

The house was purchased with a mortgage and with loans from her parents to complete the development - these loans are acknowledged legally

That sounds unusual. The bank doesn't usually like the idea of "other loans" being in the frame. How were are they "acknowledged legally"? I imagine it may be little more than an "I.O.U" between her and her parents. Or are they both on the IOU? If it's an interest free loan there are all sorts of potential Inheritance Tax complications. If interest is being paid, is he paying that as well as the mortgage?

ST270 said:

There is plenty of equity in the property and they would both have some left over if it sold after paying off all associated debts.

So increase the mortgage and/or lend her the money and/or get her parents to lend her the money to buy him out. This is where I agree with Tonker - you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Quite possibly the most practical solution is to swallow your pride, buy him out on terms which are attractive to him and then sell the house and move on with your lives.

[ST270]

RaymondVanDerDon said:

The moral thing to do would be to make the guy an offer to move out and get the house sold. Particularly as it was an arrngement entered into with the best long term intentions. He thinks you want to sell up and pocket his money to fund your new life and personally i e-sympathise with this view.

Not really - he wanted to sell the house also as it was always planned to be a development project with a view to making a profit which is still achievable. The works were completed shortly before they split up and he has agreed in writing that the house needs to be sold - now he has changed his mind and is being deliberately obstructive - to the point where our solicitor has noted this. He is going back on his written and legal agreement to sell the property within hopefully a set time frame.

On the money side - after the debts are settled there isn't a lot left between them and my g/f isn't bothered about earning anything from it - she just wants the debts to her parents and the lender paid off - meanwhile he knows that he can't get another property like this on his own and its sour grapes that she left him.

I reckon it will end up going to court but this would cost a lot and wipe out any earnings from the proceeds of the sale.

[ST270]

Claudia Skies said:

ST270 said:

The house was bought by them both from the outset following a previous house development which they made money on. He was out of work, claiming benefits and therefore unable to be included on the mortgage.

Have a missed something here? Why could he not be "included on the mortgage"? I've not previously heard of a situation where the bank doesn't want both the joint owners "on the hook" for the mortgage irrespective of whether they are both in work. Put simply, the mortgage is secured over the property. If the property is in joint ownership then both joint owners have to sign the mortgage, otherwise the bank doesn't get the rights that it needs.

The house isn't jointly owned he only has a registered interested and has invested time into the property hence his rightful claim on it - we do not dispute his standing at all and want him to half half of the proceeds.

ST270 said:

The house was purchased with a mortgage and with loans from her parents to complete the development - these loans are acknowledged legally

That sounds unusual. The bank doesn't usually like the idea of "other loans" being in the frame. How were are they "acknowledged legally"? I imagine it may be little more than an "I.O.U" between her and her parents. Or are they both on the IOU? If it's an interest free loan there are all sorts of potential Inheritance Tax complications. If interest is being paid, is he paying that as well as the mortgage?

They have an overall mortgage, a loan from her parents a small unsecured loan which was used for the development. What i mean by being legally aknowledged is that he has signed a solicitors document to agree the overall debts on the property.

ST270 said:

There is plenty of equity in the property and they would both have some left over if it sold after paying off all associated debts.

So increase the mortgage and/or lend her the money and/or get her parents to lend her the money to buy him out. This is where I agree with Tonker - you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Quite possibly the most practical solution is to swallow your pride, buy him out on terms which are attractive to him and then sell the house and move on with your lives.

There's no pride issue involved and i have offered to help buy him out but he will not sell it to me, nor will he sell it to her as he thinks we will then live in the property together(we wouldn't I have my own property)

[ST270]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

He can't afford a similar house - he works part time as a labourer, he was out of work for many years claiming benefits (probably still is as he has worked cash in hand for a whiler too) The house is a 5 bed, 3 bath detached residence worth £340ish

[Bluequay]

As it's still her house as well, why don't you and your partner move back in. Hopefully a couple of weeks of him listening to the noisiest sex you can manage will focus his mind to get the place sold quickly.

This could of course backfire spectacularly

[ST270]

Bluequay said:

As it's still her house as well, why don't you and your partner move back in. Hopefully a couple of weeks of him listening to the noisiest sex you can manage will focus his mind to get the place sold quickly.

haha that would be fun but i reckon me and him would end up in A&E

[ST270]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No not at all I don't mind, they were together for 13 years - happy for half of that i would say - well he thought they were happy, truthfully he was heavily into football (not the sporting side) and she was afraid to leave him... They did a few houses up and as their money was tied up she didn't see any way out. She finally got the courage to leave and moved back her folks, we met after all of this happened, she left for her own reasons not someone else. Whoever she ended up with would be marked in his book - he is clinically diagnosed bi-polar and a control freak

At the end of the day it is impossible to carry on with a mortgage in her name for him to live there indefinitely - why should she. They were over a long time ago and his business is not her concern he is just unwilling to move on with his life.

[Claudia Skies]

ST270 said:

he will not sell it to me, nor will he sell it to her

You said the property was up for sale. All you have to do is bowl up and offer the asking price. You probably don't even need to go through the estate agent so can sidestep their fees + VAT and then you're £5,000 ahead already.

If he says, "No I won't accept the asking price" then you've got him bang to rights in any further legal dispute.

There comes a point to stop wriggling about with the technical stuff and get on with a practical solution.

[ST270]

coyft said:

Stop paying the mortgage, that should galvanise him into some action.

We are thinking of an ultimatum - either we do a voluntary repossession and cut losses (he would lose out too) or he agrees that the house goes to auction and they accept a low offer on it and he gets something from it at least.

[Miguel Alvarez]

Set fire to it Goodfellas style and collect the insurance.

[KTF]

coyft said:

Stop paying the mortgage, that should galvanise him into some action.

And destroy her credit rating in the process.

[ST270]

KTF said:

coyft said:

Stop paying the mortgage, that should galvanise him into some action.

And destroy her credit rating in the process.

It has got to the point where she isn't even bothered about this to be honest. Credit rating will be shot for 6-7 years but if it gets him out of her life she feels it would be worth it. I don't want this to happen as it will affect both of us in the long run but as a last resort it may be the only option.

[bobbylondonuk]

Get the lawyers to agree a number to buy him out. then agree for him to step aside and collect that number on sale.

This would reverse all the current crap and you will be free to sell, buy or whatever you choose. All that matters is you pay him that amount.

everybody has a number!

[Claudia Skies]

ST270 said:

We are thinking of an ultimatum - either we do a voluntary repossession and cut losses (he would lose out too) or he agrees that the house goes to auction and they accept a low offer on it and he gets something from it at least.

Sounds bonkers.

• Voluntary repossession is madness for both of them.

• Sending the house to auction seems a much worse option than reducing the price with an estate agent.

Get some facts and figures which show the typical time it takes to sell a house in the area.
Get some facts and figures which show actual selling price of comparable houses in the area.
Get your solicitor on the case if he won't co-operate in a sensible sale process.

[hidetheelephants]

ST270 said:

Bluequay said:

As it's still her house as well, why don't you and your partner move back in. Hopefully a couple of weeks of him listening to the noisiest sex you can manage will focus his mind to get the place sold quickly.

haha that would be fun but i reckon me and him would end up in A&E

As long as he hits you first and does so in front of a witness, that's cash in the bank if it gets him a) arrested and b) a restraining order to keep away from the house.