Care homes and money
Discussion
mph1977 said:
If healthcare isn't interested Demewntia why are there dementia services run by the Mental Health trusts and people in Care homes who get the Nursing contribution from the NHS based solely on their cognitive impairment
I don;t think you understand exactly how 'high care' you need to be to get continuing care funding
I know because my mother died from dementia. She had a 9 year battle with it and I had a 4 year battle with social services. The care home manager and myself battled to get CFHC and the NHS eventually paid £400 after she died.I don;t think you understand exactly how 'high care' you need to be to get continuing care funding
How did you get on?
Simpo Two said:
mph1977 said:
If healthcare isn't interested Demewntia why are there dementia services run by the Mental Health trusts and people in Care homes who get the Nursing contribution from the NHS based solely on their cognitive impairment
I don;t think you understand exactly how 'high care' you need to be to get continuing care funding
I know because my mother died from dementia. She had a 9 year battle with it and I had a 4 year battle with social services. The care home manager and myself battled to get CFHC and the NHS eventually paid £400 after she died.I don;t think you understand exactly how 'high care' you need to be to get continuing care funding
How did you get on?
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-suppo...
given that four of the domains are primarily psychological domains
behaviour
cognition (understanding)
communication
psychological/emotional needs
to suggest that CHC for Mental health issues is some how neglected falls rather short of ther truth
CHC checklist including descriptors - a dsocument i have worked through thousands of times in a variety of NHS roles
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
full CHC docmentation
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nationa...
It's not just about looking after the patient, it's about safety for all concerned. How do you stop the person putting an electric kettle on a gas stove and either lighting it or just turning the gas on? People with final stage dementia have a capacity for doing things you simply couldn't predict... There is a time for care at home and a time for a more suitable set of surroundings. The hard part is deciding when.
crashley said:
Care homes are anything from £500-1500p/w and upwards, right?
Care workers are not paid huge sums of money. Would it not be more beneficial to employ a live-in carer? I'm sure there are other costs incorporated in the care home fees, but surely not that much?
which is all well and good if someone's care needs can be met by one person ... rather more difficult when someone needs 2 or 3 members of staff for moving and handling or to deal with episodes of 'chalenging behaviour' Care workers are not paid huge sums of money. Would it not be more beneficial to employ a live-in carer? I'm sure there are other costs incorporated in the care home fees, but surely not that much?
don;t forget the fees for care homes include all the 'hotel costs' as well ...
crashley said:
Care homes are anything from £500-1500p/w and upwards, right?
Care workers are not paid huge sums of money. Would it not be more beneficial to employ a live-in carer? I'm sure there are other costs incorporated in the care home fees, but surely not that much?
A friend of the family needed nursing care. He was extremely wealthy, but adamant that as he'd had 4 children, his family should provide all the care he needed.Care workers are not paid huge sums of money. Would it not be more beneficial to employ a live-in carer? I'm sure there are other costs incorporated in the care home fees, but surely not that much?
A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
Muzzer79 said:
A friend of the family needed nursing care. He was extremely wealthy, but adamant that as he'd had 4 children, his family should provide all the care he needed.
A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
Valid points, thank you. I guess ultimately it all comes down to the level of care required.A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
crashley said:
Muzzer79 said:
A friend of the family needed nursing care. He was extremely wealthy, but adamant that as he'd had 4 children, his family should provide all the care he needed.
A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
Valid points, thank you. I guess ultimately it all comes down to the level of care required.A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
desolate said:
crashley said:
Muzzer79 said:
A friend of the family needed nursing care. He was extremely wealthy, but adamant that as he'd had 4 children, his family should provide all the care he needed.
A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
Valid points, thank you. I guess ultimately it all comes down to the level of care required.A compromise was struck and they got live-in carers. He needed round the clock care.
Now, you rightly point out that carers are not on huge money, but you have to consider the practicalities of this.
1. You need minimum 2 x carers for 24 hour care, probably 3.
2. In addition, you need holiday/sickness cover for each of those carers
3. You have food/board/etc.
4. Potentially a vehicle for the carer
5. Supplies - special bed, wipes, pads, etc, etc
Once this is all totted up, you're running a small business and it costs thousands
Honestly, £50k a year for a home is a bargain in comparison.
On care homes it's very hard to judge. With hindsight we were very lucky with the one we chose for my mother. What I noticed was cheerful committed staff, very low staff turnover, attentive manager and senior nursing staff, excellent communication with the family. When my mum died a number of the staff were visibly upset. About 5 attended her funeral and made full use of the tab behind the bar at the wake though I did not mind because they had earned it!
ChasW said:
I know someone who did this but it was for both parents who were deteriorating at the same rate. Financially the live in option was viable in this case.
On care homes it's very hard to judge. With hindsight we were very lucky with the one we chose for my mother. What I noticed was cheerful committed staff, very low staff turnover, attentive manager and senior nursing staff, excellent communication with the family. When my mum died a number of the staff were visibly upset. About 5 attended her funeral and made full use of the tab behind the bar at the wake though I did not mind because they had earned it!
I am fortunate too in the care home my mother is in, but it saddens me that we should feel lucky or fortunate - all dementia care should be of this standard.On care homes it's very hard to judge. With hindsight we were very lucky with the one we chose for my mother. What I noticed was cheerful committed staff, very low staff turnover, attentive manager and senior nursing staff, excellent communication with the family. When my mum died a number of the staff were visibly upset. About 5 attended her funeral and made full use of the tab behind the bar at the wake though I did not mind because they had earned it!
98elise said:
susanq said:
98elise said:
This really worries me.
My partners parents are rapidly becoming incapable (both are currently in hospital) They have no money and live in rented acomodation.
They may well need to go into a home soon, yet neither they nor their kids have the money to pay for it. What happens when they qualify for full financial support, but nobody has the money to pay for the extra thats needed
I suspect i am suddenly going to be presented with a very big bill each month.
Edit....having now looked into it i think I'm going to be in for a reaming. Care for both of them will be well ove £1k per week. They have nothing as they are pensioners renting a property.
I was expecting to retire in the next few years, but it now looks like that will be on hold while I pay for their care
I don't think they'll be coming after you for the money, will they? I think they use any income/pension belonging to the recipient of care to make up the difference in local authority contributions.My partners parents are rapidly becoming incapable (both are currently in hospital) They have no money and live in rented acomodation.
They may well need to go into a home soon, yet neither they nor their kids have the money to pay for it. What happens when they qualify for full financial support, but nobody has the money to pay for the extra thats needed
I suspect i am suddenly going to be presented with a very big bill each month.
Edit....having now looked into it i think I'm going to be in for a reaming. Care for both of them will be well ove £1k per week. They have nothing as they are pensioners renting a property.
I was expecting to retire in the next few years, but it now looks like that will be on hold while I pay for their care
Edited by 98elise on Sunday 15th March 08:45
I know from friends of my parents that they (as in the kids) needed to contribute as their parents funds didn't cover it. Neither my partner nor her brother earn enough to pay for the care as neither are in well paid jobs. It would seem that if someone doesn't pay, then the is no option to go into care.
Thats why i think it will end up coming my way,
I might be wrong, but thats the way I see it.
susanq said:
Ok. So if you can get your relative into a home that accepts local authority rates, they will do an assessment on your relatives' finances and determine how much she should contribute towards her fees. For example: the home may charge £600 per week for PRIVATE residents, but accept the local authority rates of £450 per week. The local authority will then look at your relatives state of finances, income etc, and determine if she can afford to pay a certain amount towards the fees of £450 or not. The local authority will pay the rest. Get in touch with your relatives Social Services dept. they may be able to help. By the sound of it, they will qualify for help.
Thank you. All this stuff about NHS CFHC is nonsense, at least for now.Mrs Cuchillo said:
ChasW said:
I know someone who did this but it was for both parents who were deteriorating at the same rate. Financially the live in option was viable in this case.
On care homes it's very hard to judge. With hindsight we were very lucky with the one we chose for my mother. What I noticed was cheerful committed staff, very low staff turnover, attentive manager and senior nursing staff, excellent communication with the family. When my mum died a number of the staff were visibly upset. About 5 attended her funeral and made full use of the tab behind the bar at the wake though I did not mind because they had earned it!
I am fortunate too in the care home my mother is in, but it saddens me that we should feel lucky or fortunate - all dementia care should be of this standard.On care homes it's very hard to judge. With hindsight we were very lucky with the one we chose for my mother. What I noticed was cheerful committed staff, very low staff turnover, attentive manager and senior nursing staff, excellent communication with the family. When my mum died a number of the staff were visibly upset. About 5 attended her funeral and made full use of the tab behind the bar at the wake though I did not mind because they had earned it!
Simpo Two said:
susanq said:
Ok. So if you can get your relative into a home that accepts local authority rates, they will do an assessment on your relatives' finances and determine how much she should contribute towards her fees. For example: the home may charge £600 per week for PRIVATE residents, but accept the local authority rates of £450 per week. The local authority will then look at your relatives state of finances, income etc, and determine if she can afford to pay a certain amount towards the fees of £450 or not. The local authority will pay the rest. Get in touch with your relatives Social Services dept. they may be able to help. By the sound of it, they will qualify for help.
Thank you. All this stuff about NHS CFHC is nonsense, at least for now.WinstonWolf said:
It's not just about looking after the patient, it's about safety for all concerned. How do you stop the person putting an electric kettle on a gas stove and either lighting it or just turning the gas on? People with final stage dementia have a capacity for doing things you simply couldn't predict... There is a time for care at home and a time for a more suitable set of surroundings. The hard part is deciding when.
ThisThey need round the clock care. With my Father in Law taken in hospital we tried to take care of my Mother in Law in the family.
On the night my FIL went into hospital we checked on her (in person) at 11pm to make sure she had take her medication and was in bed.
At 8am my wife went over before work and made sure she was up and had taken her medication.
During her lunch break my wife went back to check up on her and she was lying on the kitchen floor in a pool of her own blood (serious head wound from a fall).
She is now in hospital recovering but she has no memory of the accident.
Now her head wound is improving the hospital want to discharge her. I'm pretty sure that if they do she will be back in A&E within 24 hours. Last time she didn't make 4 waking hours before injuring herself.
WinstonWolf said:
Simpo Two said:
susanq said:
Ok. So if you can get your relative into a home that accepts local authority rates, they will do an assessment on your relatives' finances and determine how much she should contribute towards her fees. For example: the home may charge £600 per week for PRIVATE residents, but accept the local authority rates of £450 per week. The local authority will then look at your relatives state of finances, income etc, and determine if she can afford to pay a certain amount towards the fees of £450 or not. The local authority will pay the rest. Get in touch with your relatives Social Services dept. they may be able to help. By the sound of it, they will qualify for help.
Thank you. All this stuff about NHS CFHC is nonsense, at least for now.mph1977 said:
WinstonWolf said:
Simpo Two said:
susanq said:
Ok. So if you can get your relative into a home that accepts local authority rates, they will do an assessment on your relatives' finances and determine how much she should contribute towards her fees. For example: the home may charge £600 per week for PRIVATE residents, but accept the local authority rates of £450 per week. The local authority will then look at your relatives state of finances, income etc, and determine if she can afford to pay a certain amount towards the fees of £450 or not. The local authority will pay the rest. Get in touch with your relatives Social Services dept. they may be able to help. By the sound of it, they will qualify for help.
Thank you. All this stuff about NHS CFHC is nonsense, at least for now.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff