Baby Costs - !!!!!
Discussion
Lotus82 said:
Neither employer offers childcare vouchers...
I missed this first time round...I would try to push vouchers with BOTH your employers.
It's a pretty poor show.
Childcare vouchers also save your employer money for minimal admin. If you gave a good pitch (with other parent employees too?) they might well set up the scheme and save you a bunch.
Anyway getting back on track he did ask for advice after all. Seriously consider a nanny or similar instead of nursery especially with twins and your full time jobs. Nurseries are breeding grounds for germs they will catch everything going. Little BS2 is annoyingly prone to sticky eyes which they just won't allow so has had a few days off with that while the drops do their work also a number of coughs, colds, the pox etc... How are you going to look after them when all these hit? Far better to have the hired help at your own home.
BoRED S2upid said:
Anyway getting back on track he did ask for advice after all. Seriously consider a nanny or similar instead of nursery especially with twins and your full time jobs. Nurseries are breeding grounds for germs they will catch everything going. Little BS2 is annoyingly prone to sticky eyes which they just won't allow so has had a few days off with that while the drops do their work also a number of coughs, colds, the pox etc... How are you going to look after them when all these hit? Far better to have the hired help at your own home.
Sorry but what a load of codswallop.Firstly, the whole point in nursery is to socialise the child, you know, get them mixing with others. Staying at home with an adult is no substitute, kids love other kids. They literally move leaps and bounds developmentally. You can tell which tots go to nursery when you go to the park - they are the ones who don't bawl everytime some other kid nicks their bucket & spade!
Why bother going to work and leaving the kid with a nanny if the child isnt benefiting from the above - stay at home yourself!
Secondly, exposing kids to the "breeding ground" (hysteria much?) is actually useful in building up the immune responses in the child. Obvious really.
I think the OP was asking for financial advice not advice on how to bring up their kids.
This subject (how to bring up your kids) is a deeply personal thing and in general if the parents are happy then the kids will be happy too. This has caused many discussions (arguments) within my family. I am an engineer, one of my sisters is a child psychologist and my other sister a child social worker. None of us agree, and so now we do not discuss such matters because of previous form!
Mike
This subject (how to bring up your kids) is a deeply personal thing and in general if the parents are happy then the kids will be happy too. This has caused many discussions (arguments) within my family. I am an engineer, one of my sisters is a child psychologist and my other sister a child social worker. None of us agree, and so now we do not discuss such matters because of previous form!
Mike
PugwasHDJ80 said:
which is far better than most SMEs will pay.
My wife got statutory- that was it- nothing on full pay at all, no sliding scale, nothing.
She took 5 months off work- I didn't take any!
We're both keen to have another, but only if she can find somewhere with better maternity pay/
Sorry but that statement is quite unbelievable, you are only going to have another child if a company pays better maternity pay.My wife got statutory- that was it- nothing on full pay at all, no sliding scale, nothing.
She took 5 months off work- I didn't take any!
We're both keen to have another, but only if she can find somewhere with better maternity pay/
If you do get what you wish are you going to say to the child later in life " your only here because your mother got a great benefit package from company X"
Nope.
My income would allow the wife to give up work should she wish however we made the decision to split the time down the middle and place child in Nursery for three days purely for balance - mum get's to keep her hand in career, and child gets a change of scene, development through mixing with other children in a structured enviroment that in turn prepares them for transition to school.
Coffee mornings and walks round the park with a Nanny do not compare im afraid. Anyway, perhaps a topic for a seperate thread on reflection, however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
My income would allow the wife to give up work should she wish however we made the decision to split the time down the middle and place child in Nursery for three days purely for balance - mum get's to keep her hand in career, and child gets a change of scene, development through mixing with other children in a structured enviroment that in turn prepares them for transition to school.
Coffee mornings and walks round the park with a Nanny do not compare im afraid. Anyway, perhaps a topic for a seperate thread on reflection, however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 1st April 08:26
Yes and you will find that thread here: http://www.mumsnet.com/
swerni said:
DoubleSix said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Anyway getting back on track he did ask for advice after all. Seriously consider a nanny or similar instead of nursery especially with twins and your full time jobs. Nurseries are breeding grounds for germs they will catch everything going. Little BS2 is annoyingly prone to sticky eyes which they just won't allow so has had a few days off with that while the drops do their work also a number of coughs, colds, the pox etc... How are you going to look after them when all these hit? Far better to have the hired help at your own home.
Sorry but what a load of codswallop.Firstly, the whole point in nursery is to socialise the child, you know, get them mixing with others. Staying at home with an adult is no substitute, kids love other kids. They literally move leaps and bounds developmentally. You can tell which tots go to nursery when you go to the park - they are the ones who don't bawl everytime some other kid nicks their bucket & spade!
Why bother going to work and leaving the kid with a nanny if the child isnt benefiting from the above - stay at home yourself!
Secondly, exposing kids to the "breeding ground" (hysteria much?) is actually useful in building up the immune responses in the child. Obvious really.
The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
this stuff helps social development, its helps confidence, it helps learning by copying etc
DoubleSix said:
Nope.
however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
The point of this thread is that the OP is going to have to make decisions on a cost basis, as do most people. And that includes childcare. however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 1st April 08:26
It would be great if you could afford to do everything you wanted to do, but most people can't.
swerni said:
Sorry but what a load of codswallop.
The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
Exactly! The nanny can take the kids to play groups tumble tots whatever I was throwing into the pot the simple fact that they do get ill and have to miss nursery with no grandparents to help and busy jobs the OP needs to factor in situations like this. Do their jobs allow them days off at very short notice if the children wake up sick? No then a nanny may be the best option. With clear instruction what to do with them so they don't become socially inadequate. The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
blueg33 said:
I disagree, my wife gave up work, but kids still went to nursery 3 mornings a week. Not for the nursery to act as baby sitters but for the kids to socialise with other kids. They also went to tumbletots and playgroup with their mother.
this stuff helps social development, its helps confidence, it helps learning by copying etc
Agree with this, we have friends that are quite "artistic" and home teach. Their kids are incredibly well behaved but I fear for them when they meet a bully or come up to some sort of confrontation.this stuff helps social development, its helps confidence, it helps learning by copying etc
Is it the case that the twins will be in childcare 5 days a week?
Everyones situations are different, but when our son arrived he went in mornings or afternoons, the missus went part time, we got a small contribution in childcare but didnt cover more than a few days a month. I covered a few afternoons a week, suddenly you have cover for the week with a bit of juggling. No help from the in-laws either - just the pair of us.
Son is 8 now, missus still works reduced hours as it works with school run, I still do half days and do the school run when needed.
oldnbold said:
DoubleSix said:
Nope.
however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
The point of this thread is that the OP is going to have to make decisions on a cost basis, as do most people. And that includes childcare. however the original point I was making is that you cant just look at child care on a cost basis.
Edited by DoubleSix on Wednesday 1st April 08:26
It would be great if you could afford to do everything you wanted to do, but most people can't.
Everything is balancing act of course but I'm afraid you can't separate cost/benefit as much as you might like to.
BoRED S2upid said:
swerni said:
Sorry but what a load of codswallop.
The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
Exactly! The nanny can take the kids to play groups tumble tots whatever I was throwing into the pot the simple fact that they do get ill and have to miss nursery with no grandparents to help and busy jobs the OP needs to factor in situations like this. Do their jobs allow them days off at very short notice if the children wake up sick? No then a nanny may be the best option. With clear instruction what to do with them so they don't become socially inadequate. The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
DoubleSix said:
I'm sorry but you are talking from a position of considerable ignorance I fear.
'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
Fear not no ignorance here. 'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
You obviously missed the bit where I say little BS2 goes to nursery and my wife works in education.
This thread started off as a financial one which is why it's in Finance and not on mumsnet.
DoubleSix said:
BoRED S2upid said:
swerni said:
Sorry but what a load of codswallop.
The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
Exactly! The nanny can take the kids to play groups tumble tots whatever I was throwing into the pot the simple fact that they do get ill and have to miss nursery with no grandparents to help and busy jobs the OP needs to factor in situations like this. Do their jobs allow them days off at very short notice if the children wake up sick? No then a nanny may be the best option. With clear instruction what to do with them so they don't become socially inadequate. The primary point of a nursery is to baby sit children while their mothers can carry on with their career.
Do you think a nanny stays in all day with the child?
How about mothers who don't work and bring up their own child, is that a bad thing?
Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself why your wife isn't at home bringing up the children you had.
'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
I subscribe to the principle of giving your kids of any age as wide an experience as possible. I think for us it has paid off.
Eldest did very well in school, has loads of friends, is a published poet and musician, second dan balckbelt at taekwondo, has offer of uni places reading theoretical astrophysics or acoustic engineering and is currently in Burkina Faso doing voluntary humanitarian work with disabled people. Not bad for a 19 year old.
Youngest is doing well at school, had a good range of friends, does some great art and volunteers at a wildlife rescue hospital.
I see other kids who didn't get the mix of experiences as a toddler, just stayed at home with mum, and they are comparatively insular
DoubleSix said:
I'm sorry but you are talking from a position of considerable ignorance I fear.
'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
This is a good point. Even though my OH is a full-time mum, TangoDelta started nursery one day a week aged 2 and we have been slowly ramping it up ready for him starting school full time. Some interaction with children and structure is important, but with anything in life it is a balancing act. Play dates with the children of other full-time parents and the various groups/clubs etc are a great alternative to full-time care. 'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
When I see real babies (only a handful of weeks old) being dropped off at nursery at the crack of dawn it breaks my heart. At that age they are not even aware of other kids so the social-skills argument goes out of the window. It is simply out of necessity due to the work commitments of the parents. I couldn't do that, nor could my OH. We are lucky that we can afford to have her stay home, and I only work 6 months a year anyway so we have loads of time in which to enjoy our children together before they have to start full-time schooling. If we were not in that position think that would have influenced our decision to start a family (or not).
BoRED S2upid said:
DoubleSix said:
I'm sorry but you are talking from a position of considerable ignorance I fear.
'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
Fear not no ignorance here. 'Tumbletots' and play groups are unstructured. If you had any understanding of the work (good) nurseries put into skills such as language and other key developmental milestones you'd realise they offer remarkable value and aren't comparable to play groups.
You obviously missed the bit where I say little BS2 goes to nursery and my wife works in education.
This thread started off as a financial one which is why it's in Finance and not on mumsnet.
Why are people so scared to discuss anything to do with their children on here though?? Look at the thread title FFS, the discussion is about the financial impact of children! Yet any discussion of child care cost/benefit is 'soft' and best left to Mumsnet??
Honestly guys, get a grip it's not 1975 any more!DoubleSix said:
Honestly guys, get a grip it's not 1975 any more!
I am happy to discuss the pros/cons of childminder/nursery/nanny/ruin your wife's career but it has been done ad nauseam on mumsnet - so if you want the latest views you can find it there - that's all I meant.The OP wanted reassurance that children will ruin him financially.
And I am here to give that.
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