HMRC not receiving registered post?
Discussion
I'm currently having a problem with HMRC not receiving letters relating to tax self assessment. I have sent 3 letters to them 1st class signed for because they include tax paperwork and I wanted to ensure they arrived.
Two were sent to BX9 1AS. The first was sent on 17th March, the second on 14th April. Another was sent to their complaints department to BX9 1AB on 20th April. As yet none are showing as being received by HMRC using Royal Mail's website.
Do any of the accountants here run into this? Is there a geographical address I can use to communicate with them rather than the BX addresses?
Thanks in advance.
Two were sent to BX9 1AS. The first was sent on 17th March, the second on 14th April. Another was sent to their complaints department to BX9 1AB on 20th April. As yet none are showing as being received by HMRC using Royal Mail's website.
Do any of the accountants here run into this? Is there a geographical address I can use to communicate with them rather than the BX addresses?
Thanks in advance.
Simpo Two said:
Ah well then there would be proof that the letter had been received, and then any subsequent f
k up would be their fault. This way, there isn't proof so they can fine you £100.
This is exactly what I've discovered! Having not had much luck on the phone in the past I thought my best bet would be to only communicate by registered post but that's only any good if they actually accept it. Surely most people send in their self assessment paperwork by registered post. k up would be their fault. This way, there isn't proof so they can fine you £100.
LdnShtr said:
This is exactly what I've discovered! Having not had much luck on the phone in the past I thought my best bet would be to only communicate by registered post but that's only any good if they actually accept it. Surely most people send in their self assessment paperwork by registered post.
No - they don't. Most people now use on-line filing - which is the way HMRC would prefer it.
Eric Mc said:
LdnShtr said:
Surely most people send in their self assessment paperwork by registered post.
No - they don't. Most people now use on-line filing - which is the way HMRC would prefer it.He means that people sending in SA paperwork will use registered post and not standard post.
The answer is most don't do that either. Indeed, registering the package could result in a "non-delivery" due to no one signing for it at HMRC. The best course of action is to send it "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office. In that way, YOU will have details of what was sent and when it was sent and that evidence will stand up in court if necessary.
In fact, HMRC has actually blocked up the post boxes on their remaining tax offices as they simply don't want to be dealing with paper mail any more for their normal, routine activities.
The only sure fire way to get a guaranteed acknowledgement that a tax return has been received is to send it on-line. HMRC will not confirm receipt of paper returns - whether the poster registered the package or not.
In fact, HMRC has actually blocked up the post boxes on their remaining tax offices as they simply don't want to be dealing with paper mail any more for their normal, routine activities.
The only sure fire way to get a guaranteed acknowledgement that a tax return has been received is to send it on-line. HMRC will not confirm receipt of paper returns - whether the poster registered the package or not.
Eric Mc said:
The best course of action is to send it "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office. In that way, YOU will have details of what was sent and when it was sent and that evidence will stand up in court if necessary.
It's proof of posting but not proof of delivery (anyone who's had a rogue buyer on eBay will have discovered that the sender has responsibility for delivery too). Mind you if as you say it has stood the test of the court system then it should suffice.Eric Mc said:
In fact, HMRC has actually blocked up the post boxes on their remaining tax offices as they simply don't want to be dealing with paper mail any more for their normal, routine activities... HMRC will not confirm receipt of paper returns - whether the poster registered the package or not.
Fair enough, but do they say that anywhere, so that people can be aware?Eric Mc said:
The answer is most don't do that either. Indeed, registering the package could result in a "non-delivery" due to no one signing for it at HMRC. The best course of action is to send it "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office. In that way, YOU will have details of what was sent and when it was sent and that evidence will stand up in court if necessary.
Again, that's obviously what the OP meant when he said 'registered post'...Eric Mc said:
Not sure. It's probably buried somewhere in their massive website.
Then it should be on the back of each bill under 'How to pay'. It would save much grief and delay and possibly fines for well-meaning people like the OP who just want to make sure their stuff gets there.How about:
'HMRC does not accept post that requires a signature. If you require acknowledgement of filing please use the online service. Alternatively you can try your luck with ordinary post and hope it doesn't get lost or we'll fine you £100 even though it wasn't your fault'.
There, that was easy
gregf40 said:
Again, that's obviously what the OP meant when he said 'registered post'...
"Registered Post" has a specific legal status which is different to "Recorded Delivery" or "Proof of Postage". So, if an individual states "Registered Post", the assumption has to be that is exactly what they meant - not some other form of postage.Eric Mc said:
There is indeed a confusion of terminology, perhaps due to the PO.
Once there was Recorded and Registered. Now there is 'Proof of Postage' and 'Signed For', which I suspect are renamed versions of the first two, and 'Special Delivery', which may be the same as 'signed for'.Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 23 April 15:44
I'm fairly sure it's not possible to send self assessment paperwork by on-line filing. My comment was intended to refer to those filing paper returns only. Sorry to have caused confusion.
I've used the address given on the tax return forms and the complaints address I found online but as of right now still nothing has arrived. If they were undeliverable then the Royal Mail would have returned them to the return address I put on the envelopes, ie me, wouldn't they? Could that mean they may have been received by HMRC but they haven't signed for them somehow?
You mention sending letters to HMRC using "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office Eric. How does this differ from the 3 proofs of postage I already have from sending them "1st Class Signed For" as per my first post? Is it because to contents of the envelope is listed as part of the "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" service?
In terms of addresses I have found two that I think might be worth trying.
The first is from https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-rev...
HM Revenue and Customs - Self Assessment
PO Box 4000
Cardiff
CF14 8HR
The second is the address for payment by cheque of the £100 penalty, which presumably they will be much keener to receive and therefore they might read my communications to them.
HMRC
Bradford
BD98 1YY
If I write to both of these addresses am I better sending them "Special Delivery Guaranteed" (they don't appear to offer a "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" according to the Royal Mail website)?
All I want to do is pay tax on what I've earnt taking pictures.
I've used the address given on the tax return forms and the complaints address I found online but as of right now still nothing has arrived. If they were undeliverable then the Royal Mail would have returned them to the return address I put on the envelopes, ie me, wouldn't they? Could that mean they may have been received by HMRC but they haven't signed for them somehow?
You mention sending letters to HMRC using "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office Eric. How does this differ from the 3 proofs of postage I already have from sending them "1st Class Signed For" as per my first post? Is it because to contents of the envelope is listed as part of the "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" service?
In terms of addresses I have found two that I think might be worth trying.
The first is from https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-rev...
HM Revenue and Customs - Self Assessment
PO Box 4000
Cardiff
CF14 8HR
The second is the address for payment by cheque of the £100 penalty, which presumably they will be much keener to receive and therefore they might read my communications to them.
HMRC
Bradford
BD98 1YY
If I write to both of these addresses am I better sending them "Special Delivery Guaranteed" (they don't appear to offer a "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" according to the Royal Mail website)?
All I want to do is pay tax on what I've earnt taking pictures.
It IS possible to send attachments, schedules etc to HMRC electronically when e-filing Self Assessment tax returns. In fact, I do it all the time. My normal "package" of data that I send to HMRC with each Self Assessment return I submit will be -
Income Tax calculation (with Class 4 NI included if the taxpayer is self employed)
A schedule of all the data included in the main tax return (this gives more detail than is possible on the return itself)but may be necessary to provide HMRC with better information than the tax return itself allows
A set of self employed accounts - including profit and loss account and balance sheet for larger self employment businesses
A set of Business Tax computations including Capital Allowance claims loss relief claims and loss elections where appropriate
HOWEVER, I am not sure if anyone using HMRC's on-line screens can include all this extra data. I use third party commercial software specially configured for professional accountants and fully compliant with Self Assessment regulations. In fact, from what I gather, submitting Self Assessment data using HMRC's own screens may cause you to under declare information. The only way to avoid this is to make sure you make full use of the "White Space" further detail boxes provided on the Self Assessment return.
Income Tax calculation (with Class 4 NI included if the taxpayer is self employed)
A schedule of all the data included in the main tax return (this gives more detail than is possible on the return itself)but may be necessary to provide HMRC with better information than the tax return itself allows
A set of self employed accounts - including profit and loss account and balance sheet for larger self employment businesses
A set of Business Tax computations including Capital Allowance claims loss relief claims and loss elections where appropriate
HOWEVER, I am not sure if anyone using HMRC's on-line screens can include all this extra data. I use third party commercial software specially configured for professional accountants and fully compliant with Self Assessment regulations. In fact, from what I gather, submitting Self Assessment data using HMRC's own screens may cause you to under declare information. The only way to avoid this is to make sure you make full use of the "White Space" further detail boxes provided on the Self Assessment return.
LdnShtr said:
You mention sending letters to HMRC using "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" with a "Proof of Postage" obtained from your Post Office Eric. How does this differ from the 3 proofs of postage I already have from sending them "1st Class Signed For" as per my first post? Is it because to contents of the envelope is listed as part of the "Guaranteed Next Day Delivery" service?
I doubt the fact they take one day or two is important. But 'Proof of Postage' simply means you posted it; it's not a proof of delivery. It may have been eaten by a dog halfway. By contrast 'Signed For' means the recipient signs for it - ie proof of delivery.But all this makes no odds if the recipient refuses to sign.
My accountant has filed my numbers online for several years so that's probably the thing to do. I'm glad he gets to deal with them and not me.
No accountant in their right mind would continue to submit paper returns.
I held on a bit longer than some because up until about 2006 or 2007, it wasn't possible to add the additional data sheets to the on-line submissions, even using third party commercial software. And I wasn't prepared to submit bare returns only.
Once that little hurdle had been cleared, there were no longer any reasons whatsoever to continue with paper filing.
I held on a bit longer than some because up until about 2006 or 2007, it wasn't possible to add the additional data sheets to the on-line submissions, even using third party commercial software. And I wasn't prepared to submit bare returns only.
Once that little hurdle had been cleared, there were no longer any reasons whatsoever to continue with paper filing.
To clarify, by self assessment paperwork I had meant my SA100 and relevant additional sheets. Sorry once again for the confusion.
I am now £12.90 lighter having sent a further letter to each of the addresses above by Special Delivery Guaranteed as recommended, along with duplicates of the previous letters and forms, the SA100 and accompanying additional sheets excepted. I'm hanging on to the receipts so I'll get it back in a couple of years but it is annoying.
I have also just submitted a second "Lost, Damaged or Delayed Inland Mail Claim Form" for the second letter, sent on the 14th April, having already done the same for the initial tax return letter last week. It's form "Inland P58 May 2014" to avoid further confusion Eric.
The lady behind the counter asked why I was sending two letters to different HMRC addresses and it turned out in the morning a guy had come in and had a go at her for Royal Mail failing to deliver his tax return so it's not just me.
I'll let you know if either letter arrives tomorrow evening. I'm not holding my breath...
I get what you're saying about online applications Eric and Simpo. No doubt they're making it as difficult as possible to file correctly by paper so that everyone is forced to file online. Unfortunately I will have to persevere by paper this year since I've already started the process.
I am now £12.90 lighter having sent a further letter to each of the addresses above by Special Delivery Guaranteed as recommended, along with duplicates of the previous letters and forms, the SA100 and accompanying additional sheets excepted. I'm hanging on to the receipts so I'll get it back in a couple of years but it is annoying.
I have also just submitted a second "Lost, Damaged or Delayed Inland Mail Claim Form" for the second letter, sent on the 14th April, having already done the same for the initial tax return letter last week. It's form "Inland P58 May 2014" to avoid further confusion Eric.
The lady behind the counter asked why I was sending two letters to different HMRC addresses and it turned out in the morning a guy had come in and had a go at her for Royal Mail failing to deliver his tax return so it's not just me.
I'll let you know if either letter arrives tomorrow evening. I'm not holding my breath...
I get what you're saying about online applications Eric and Simpo. No doubt they're making it as difficult as possible to file correctly by paper so that everyone is forced to file online. Unfortunately I will have to persevere by paper this year since I've already started the process.
LdnShtr said:
To clarify, by self assessment paperwork I had meant my SA100 and relevant additional sheets. Sorry once again for the confusion.
I am now £12.90 lighter having sent a further letter to each of the addresses above by Special Delivery Guaranteed as recommended, along with duplicates of the previous letters and forms, the SA100 and accompanying additional sheets excepted. I'm hanging on to the receipts so I'll get it back in a couple of years but it is annoying.
I have also just submitted a second "Lost, Damaged or Delayed Inland Mail Claim Form" for the second letter, sent on the 14th April, having already done the same for the initial tax return letter last week. It's form "Inland P58 May 2014" to avoid further confusion Eric.
The lady behind the counter asked why I was sending two letters to different HMRC addresses and it turned out in the morning a guy had come in and had a go at her for Royal Mail failing to deliver his tax return so it's not just me.
I'll let you know if either letter arrives tomorrow evening. I'm not holding my breath...
What tax return are you trying to submit i.e. what tax year are you completing?
I get what you're saying about online applications Eric and Simpo. No doubt they're making it as difficult as possible to file correctly by paper so that everyone is forced to file online. Unfortunately I will have to persevere by paper this year since I've already started the process.
I am now £12.90 lighter having sent a further letter to each of the addresses above by Special Delivery Guaranteed as recommended, along with duplicates of the previous letters and forms, the SA100 and accompanying additional sheets excepted. I'm hanging on to the receipts so I'll get it back in a couple of years but it is annoying.
I have also just submitted a second "Lost, Damaged or Delayed Inland Mail Claim Form" for the second letter, sent on the 14th April, having already done the same for the initial tax return letter last week. It's form "Inland P58 May 2014" to avoid further confusion Eric.
The lady behind the counter asked why I was sending two letters to different HMRC addresses and it turned out in the morning a guy had come in and had a go at her for Royal Mail failing to deliver his tax return so it's not just me.
I'll let you know if either letter arrives tomorrow evening. I'm not holding my breath...
What tax return are you trying to submit i.e. what tax year are you completing?
I get what you're saying about online applications Eric and Simpo. No doubt they're making it as difficult as possible to file correctly by paper so that everyone is forced to file online. Unfortunately I will have to persevere by paper this year since I've already started the process.
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