rejected for Nat west B2L....bizarre

[Craigybaby69]

£110k
Slight amendment, I've had the B2L 13 years so have had 2 mortgages in total, doesn't that show good debt management? It's a shocking state if affairs where getting into debt is considered better than living within your means. Also forgot I did take a 0% finance deal on an eternity ring between 2012-2013 so suppose that counts as a personal loan...I'm not deliberately withholding info here, things are just coming back to me.

[Craigybaby69]

Thanks for the insight though sarnie, very useful, I suspect I'm not gonna get anywhere with this and have to stick on the svr.

[Sarnie]

Craigybaby69 said:

£110k
Slight amendment, I've had the B2L 13 years so have had 2 mortgages in total, doesn't that show good debt management? It's a shocking state if affairs where getting into debt is considered better than living within your means. Also forgot I did take a 0% finance deal on an eternity ring between 2012-2013 so suppose that counts as a personal loan...I'm not deliberately withholding info here, things are just coming back to me.

I agree with you of course!

We had a FTB earning over £100k for the last three years, who had never borrowed a penny from anyone and really struggled to secure a 90% £250k mortgage. He just kept failing the "internal scorecard" because he had absolutely no history at all.......sorted it in the end, but when you want to lend money, lenders want to see a positive history of doing so.

[Craigybaby69]

So as well as having had a residential mortgage for 9 years, a B2L mortgage for 12 years. 1 CC paid off every month and the odd occasional small personal loan to buy trinkets, what else can I do to look a better risk?

I could look into getting the wife on the mortgage as she earns 3x what I do, but her credit history is virtually identical to mine so it doesn't look like that would help.

[bad company]

I once had trouble getting a 0% credit deal from a shop as I was self employed. We applied again in Mrs BC's name and she was instantly accepted. The daft part was that I was her employer.

[Craigybaby69]

Update.....managed to remortgage eventually, did it all by myself rather than through an FA...took the post offices 5 year fix (with bank of Ireland) £1k fees, reduced monthly payment from £515 to £360 so saving about £7k in total...there was a lot of paperwork collecting which I would have had to have done even going through an FA anyway. My nat west rejection isn't showing on experian or equifax so not sure what happened there...maybe the FA couldn't be arsed actually applying for the £500 earner!
Cheers

[bad company]

Craigybaby69 said:

Update.....managed to remortgage eventually, did it all by myself rather than through an FA...took the post offices 5 year fix (with bank of Ireland) £1k fees, reduced monthly payment from £515 to £360 so saving about £7k in total...there was a lot of paperwork collecting which I would have had to have done even going through an FA anyway. My nat west rejection isn't showing on experian or equifax so not sure what happened there...maybe the FA couldn't be arsed actually applying for the £500 earner!
Cheers

Well done that man.

[sugerbear]

Craigybaby69 said:

Update.....managed to remortgage eventually, did it all by myself rather than through an FA...took the post offices 5 year fix (with bank of Ireland) £1k fees, reduced monthly payment from £515 to £360 so saving about £7k in total...there was a lot of paperwork collecting which I would have had to have done even going through an FA anyway. My nat west rejection isn't showing on experian or equifax so not sure what happened there...maybe the FA couldn't be arsed actually applying for the £500 earner!
Cheers

You are mixing the banks in house credit score with the credit reference check. Every lender has there own set of rules and you must have triggered one, maybe you had too much/too little credit available or maybe you are too old/young to qualify for this particular loan (it could be any number of reasons). Experien score are just an indication of your credit worthiness (based on what experian thinks is a good score).

Sounds like they rejected you before they did the credit references. You probably weren't in the right category of person they wanted to lend to.

Don't take it personally, just move on to a different lender.

[Craigybaby69]

Thanks for your reply and I think what you say makes sense...and in which case I blame the FA as surely as an experienced mortgage broker he should have known I was likely to get rejected....interesting that he showed no ambition to look elsewhere for me either. when I started looking at bank of Ireland they publish their criteria for who they like to lend to, I'd be surprised if nat west don't do the same...anyway, i got it all sorted myself, haven't taken it personally and am quids in my new deal, so it's been a good learning experience
Cheers

[Sarnie]

Craigybaby69 said:

Thanks for your reply and I think what you say makes sense...and in which case I blame the FA as surely as an experienced mortgage broker he should have known I was likely to get rejected....interesting that he showed no ambition to look elsewhere for me either. when I started looking at bank of Ireland they publish their criteria for who they like to lend to, I'd be surprised if nat west don't do the same...anyway, i got it all sorted myself, haven't taken it personally and am quids in my new deal, so it's been a good learning experience
Cheers

How can you blame the FA for you failing Natwest's credit score?? What input to your credit score did he have?

Lenders AIP systems are kind of a black art, there are so many variables that go into a decision that it's very hard to decipher reasoning for a decision.

I could understand if you were declined for a specific reason that he should have known about Eg a minimum salary or being a residential property owner etc etc........but if it's literally just down to credit score......how could he know that Natwest would decline you?

[sugerbear]

Craigybaby69 said:

Thanks for your reply and I think what you say makes sense...and in which case I blame the FA as surely as an experienced mortgage broker he should have known I was likely to get rejected....interesting that he showed no ambition to look elsewhere for me either. when I started looking at bank of Ireland they publish their criteria for who they like to lend to, I'd be surprised if nat west don't do the same...anyway, i got it all sorted myself, haven't taken it personally and am quids in my new deal, so it's been a good learning experience
Cheers

Sounds like he/she isn't very experienced or just didn't know the lender very well. The failure of the FA is in not coming up with some likely alternatives for you.

Did you use an independent FA with an upfront fee?

[Craigybaby69]

No, he'd have got his commission from the lender, about £500 I think. My thoughts are that a good mortgage broker doing mortgages all day would have his finger on the pulse of who who be a good fit for his customer given their circumstances.
I work as a life insurance underwriter and have to give very clear reasons justifying why I have rated or declined someone. I can't just say underwriting is a black art so I'm not telling why I made my decision...I'd be surprised if mortgage lending/underwriting was too dissimilar. Maybe blame is too harsh a word but I think we wouldn't both have wasted our time (& caused me anxiety) had the FA been better at his job.

[Sarnie]

Craigybaby69 said:

No, he'd have got his commission from the lender, about £500 I think. My thoughts are that a good mortgage broker doing mortgages all day would have his finger on the pulse of who who be a good fit for his customer given their circumstances.
I work as a life insurance underwriter and have to give very clear reasons justifying why I have rated or declined someone. I can't just say underwriting is a black art so I'm not telling why I made my decision...I'd be surprised if mortgage lending/underwriting was too dissimilar. Maybe blame is too harsh a word but I think we wouldn't both have wasted our time (& caused me anxiety) had the FA been better at his job.

You are wrong.

I transact a lot of mortgages per year but I simply cannot legislate for someone failing a credit score, it's about the only thing I cannot carry out due dilligence on, beyond requesting a copy of the credit file and then making a gut decision based on the facts and past experience. However, what is not known, is a lenders credit score requirements and how they will assess all facets of a clients details. And when you do fail the credit score, they do NOT give you specific reason and usually trot out the usual "please refer to the clients credit file" as their sole reasoning; hence it is indeed a black art in a lot of cases of declined AIP's.

If the AIP was declined for something that he should have known about Eg it's detailed within the written lending criteria such as "minimum salary" or "Needs to be a residential property owner for a BTL" then fair enough, he should have known.

But if it all fits criteria and you've just failed the credit score then it's unfair to blame him, thats only something you can influence.

[Craigybaby69]

How do they get away with being so non-transparent? In this day and age "computer says no" seems very archaic.

[Sarnie]

Craigybaby69 said:

How do they get away with being so non-transparent? In this day and age "computer says no" seems very archaic.

Because it allows them to set up their AIP system to target whatever LTV, salary range, credit score or any other client variable that they want to lend to at a particular time, in line with lending figures and targets....

Lenders want to lend money = slash rates, reduces AIP credit score requirements = funds going out the door

Lenders suddenly have too much business and service levels go out the window = put rates UP, increase AIP credit score requirements = reduced number of applications whilst they administer the previous glut of applications.

[Burwood]

Sarnie said:

Craigybaby69 said:

Thanks for your reply and I think what you say makes sense...and in which case I blame the FA as surely as an experienced mortgage broker he should have known I was likely to get rejected....interesting that he showed no ambition to look elsewhere for me either. when I started looking at bank of Ireland they publish their criteria for who they like to lend to, I'd be surprised if nat west don't do the same...anyway, i got it all sorted myself, haven't taken it personally and am quids in my new deal, so it's been a good learning experience
Cheers

How can you blame the FA for you failing Natwest's credit score?? What input to your credit score did he have?

Lenders AIP systems are kind of a black art, there are so many variables that go into a decision that it's very hard to decipher reasoning for a decision.

I could understand if you were declined for a specific reason that he should have known about Eg a minimum salary or being a residential property owner etc etc........but if it's literally just down to credit score......how could he know that Natwest would decline you?

Very easy to blame the broker. Simple laziness and or incompetent. Anyone will 2 brain cells can see the OP should not have been dicked around. A broker should have many avenues to pursue.

[Craigybaby69]

I wouldn't put it quite as strongly as that, although I agree with the dicked around bit...what I'm struggling to get my head around is why nat west would do this....if they've taken on as much business as they want, why stay on top of the best buy tables, encouraging apps, only to decline them and pi55 off the FA and client? Surely it makes sense to raise rates once you've got enough business and then lower them once you want more...it ended favourably for me but has left me wondering what the point of a broker is...some might say as they have access to the best rates but because the lender is paying them a commission common sense tells me they have access to the worst rates so the lender can recoup the commission somehow....certainly with my post office/ bank of Ireland mortgage I got a better rate than I would have done going through an FA.

[Sarnie]

Craigybaby69 said:

but has left me wondering what the point of a broker is...

As with almost anything, finding a good one is key.......try and find one others have direct experience with!

[Wacky Racer]

How can you not have a credit "history" when you always pay your card/s off in full.

It must prove you are a responsible borrower.

If you had £100k to lend to someone who would it rather be?

a) Someone who has a history of settling their bill IN FULL every month.

b) Someone who has owesdseveral thousand pounds across three or four credit cards for months.


Bonkers.

(
Unless I am missing something).

[nikaiyo2]

I am not a mortgage broker so this might be way off the mark, but I do know a bit about BTL finance.

130% rent to repayment ratio would seem to be the problem here, it only just scrapes over the absolute minimum of 125%, personally I look to get 3x mortgage payment in rent per month.