What's your views on Bitcoin and why?
Discussion
R11ysf said:
ShigsDid you want an answer to the question on what WE thought of bitcoin or did you want to use this post as a marketing exercise?
It's not a very good one. Marketing should be about simplifying for the consumer.Bottom line is people are not used to new currencies. Most couldn't explain how an exchange rate works between USD/GBP/EUR so what chance has the man in the street got with a virtual currency created by computers with terminology alien to 99%, who's main claims to fame are wild fluctuations in value and dubious association with the Silk Road?
I dare say it has/will find it's niche but as for being a realistic option for the masses? I'll not hold my breath.
Not only is the OP's last post overly long and complicated, i suspect it is wrong.
He says that it opens new transactions (online tipping, or microtransactions on the internet without charge".
First one - really? I mean really? If tou're giving a waitor a tip, leave coins in local currency. As if you're going to end the meal with "give me your bank account, i'll send you a top". Sounds daft? Now replace bank account with bitcoin wallet. Still daft.
Second one - microtransactions without charge. Currently, transactions are all payable. Miners are doing the computation for transactions in return for mining bitcoins (as payment). Once the total 22m coins are out there, who does the computation? They'll still be wanting paid, or they'll turn off their pc's and save a wedge in their leccy bill. Moreover, because the blockchain has records of everything in it, it will get exponentially larger, and need more resource to transact. At this point, where is the concept of free transaction? Pipe dream imo.
Every time i see bitcoin propaganda, i just see a really interesting technical concept, surrounded by this woo that it'll change the world. It really won't imo.
He says that it opens new transactions (online tipping, or microtransactions on the internet without charge".
First one - really? I mean really? If tou're giving a waitor a tip, leave coins in local currency. As if you're going to end the meal with "give me your bank account, i'll send you a top". Sounds daft? Now replace bank account with bitcoin wallet. Still daft.
Second one - microtransactions without charge. Currently, transactions are all payable. Miners are doing the computation for transactions in return for mining bitcoins (as payment). Once the total 22m coins are out there, who does the computation? They'll still be wanting paid, or they'll turn off their pc's and save a wedge in their leccy bill. Moreover, because the blockchain has records of everything in it, it will get exponentially larger, and need more resource to transact. At this point, where is the concept of free transaction? Pipe dream imo.
Every time i see bitcoin propaganda, i just see a really interesting technical concept, surrounded by this woo that it'll change the world. It really won't imo.
So called micro-transactions are already perfectly possible and the regulators are limiting the interchange fee to make them even cheaper.
The cost of fraud that bitcoin eliminates is absolutely tiny.
It sounds big because of how many trillions go through the EMV system for example.
And RufusGTI was bang on the money (real money not e-money) with his point about the KYC/AML requirements.
I tried and thankfully failed to buy a few bitcoins from MtGox.
A scan of my passport and bank statement still wasn't enough for them to let me set up an account.
It was easier to open a spread betting account and buy through that.
The cost of fraud that bitcoin eliminates is absolutely tiny.
It sounds big because of how many trillions go through the EMV system for example.
And RufusGTI was bang on the money (real money not e-money) with his point about the KYC/AML requirements.
I tried and thankfully failed to buy a few bitcoins from MtGox.
A scan of my passport and bank statement still wasn't enough for them to let me set up an account.
It was easier to open a spread betting account and buy through that.
shigs said:
Bitcoin and bitcoin based technology hold with it the ability to directly impact global poverty by empowering individuals with the tools require to effect their own bottom line instead of being reliant on aid, this will not happen overnight, these are not airy fairy libertarian ideals, it's simple evolution.
Enough gobbledygook in there to last a lifetime. Avoid.
Some Gump said:
Not only is the OP's last post overly long and complicated, i suspect it is wrong.
He says that it opens new transactions (online tipping, or microtransactions on the internet without charge".
First one - really? I mean really? If tou're giving a waitor a tip, leave coins in local currency. As if you're going to end the meal with "give me your bank account, i'll send you a top". Sounds daft? Now replace bank account with bitcoin wallet. Still daft.
Second one - microtransactions without charge. Currently, transactions are all payable. Miners are doing the computation for transactions in return for mining bitcoins (as payment). Once the total 22m coins are out there, who does the computation? They'll still be wanting paid, or they'll turn off their pc's and save a wedge in their leccy bill. Moreover, because the blockchain has records of everything in it, it will get exponentially larger, and need more resource to transact. At this point, where is the concept of free transaction? Pipe dream imo.
Every time i see bitcoin propaganda, i just see a really interesting technical concept, surrounded by this woo that it'll change the world. It really won't imo.
Transaction fees are not mandatory. Miners are predominately mining for the bitcoin reward, however they also get the transaction fees. once all 21m bitcoins are mined ( by 2140) transaction fees will take over as the incentive. He says that it opens new transactions (online tipping, or microtransactions on the internet without charge".
First one - really? I mean really? If tou're giving a waitor a tip, leave coins in local currency. As if you're going to end the meal with "give me your bank account, i'll send you a top". Sounds daft? Now replace bank account with bitcoin wallet. Still daft.
Second one - microtransactions without charge. Currently, transactions are all payable. Miners are doing the computation for transactions in return for mining bitcoins (as payment). Once the total 22m coins are out there, who does the computation? They'll still be wanting paid, or they'll turn off their pc's and save a wedge in their leccy bill. Moreover, because the blockchain has records of everything in it, it will get exponentially larger, and need more resource to transact. At this point, where is the concept of free transaction? Pipe dream imo.
Every time i see bitcoin propaganda, i just see a really interesting technical concept, surrounded by this woo that it'll change the world. It really won't imo.
You're right about the blockchain increasing in size, there are many potential solutions to address this, but right now you're right it is one of the more important challenges surrounding the network.
All that jazz said:
I wasn't talking about criminal use, I was talking about for normal people. It has no advantages to any normal person using normal currencies through a normal bank account. The normal person doesn't care about peer to peer payments without intermediaries, nor do they care about their money being divisible into fractions, nor do they care about transaction costs as it doesn't cost them anything, nor do they care about anonymity nor fully transparent ledgers either. Chargeback risk would only matter to a criminal up to no good/looking to scam someone and your argument that it's available to the unbanked is moot because you still have to set up an account and prove who you are before you can use oir mine bitcoins.
Entirely possible to obtain and use bitcoins without a bank account. Set up a wallet, post the address and I'll send you some.Less flippantly, if you have a product or service to offer, all you need is a wallet and a willingness to be paid in bitcoin. No bank account required. Add in others with goods/services you're interested in who are also willing to trade in bitcoin and bingo, unbanked economy. Functions in much the same way as the cash economy, but removes geographic limitation and things like exchange costs, as your market is potentially anyone with internet access. Say you're an African village making traditional arts and crafts that you'd like to market and sell to a wider audience than just passing tourists. Set up a wesite, accept bitcoin and away you go. That's already happening. For a more western example, how about an independent band wanting to sell their music and merchandise without labels, Paypal and the like taking a cut every step of the way? How about cryptoequity in crowdfunding? Rather than just getting a t-shirt and a warm glow, you get a share in the future worth of the project you're funding. If it fades into obscurity, you're no worse off and you still have the t-shirt, but if they turn out to have just invented the next big thing and get snapped up for billions, your contribution to the original idea is recognised and you benefit from the sale. Occulus Rift is a great example of where that would have been useful, as the original crowdfunders saw no benefit of the business they helped bring into existence getting sold for megabucks.
Bitcoin and blockchains are currently where the internet and email were in the very early days. The exact same comments about it being "only for geeks", "technobabble" and "no use in every day life" were made then, but spin forward 20+ years and we all use e-commerce and smartphone apps without thinking, and email has transformed our business and personal lives. That "only for geeks" technology has spawned giant companies who have disrupted/created entire markets, who are worth hundreds of billions and with whom we interact with on a daily basis, all from some geeky protocols.
Quick "back of a fag packet" example of a behind the scenes use for a blockchain would be to improve the speed of switching utilities. Currently there's a delay whilst the various utilities ascertain who owns what meter and agree the transfer, and switching can take weeks. Create a blockchain with tokens representing individual meters and that ownership transfer becomes as simple as the token moving between utility wallets. That's the sort of area where I suspect the technology is going to find greatest use. You won't see it, but it'll be there and will hugely change a great deal of processes you rely on.
I'm far from a bitcoin fanboy and have no professional interest or deep technological understanding, but there's huge potential for the technology to change a lot of things. You probably won't see it, but it'll be there.
A guy I work with paid for a few rounds of drinks in a pub in Nottingham with bitcoin last week.
He had some app on his phone, bartender had a tablet on the bar, typed in the cost, that generated a QR code which my colleague scanned on his phone, accepted the price and the deal was done... Very futuristic
He had some app on his phone, bartender had a tablet on the bar, typed in the cost, that generated a QR code which my colleague scanned on his phone, accepted the price and the deal was done... Very futuristic
shigs said:
So, price aside, what's your views on Bitcoin and why?
Fiat currencies are widely accepted and backed by the tax-raising capacity of governments. However, central banks are printing billions of it and private banks effective create credit equivalents.Metals have uses and gold is pretty but are inconvenient to store and exchange. At least they are real.
Bitcoin has anonymity but is backed by nothing. It's just a hash, even less use than a prime number.
So for illegal activity, bitcoin is the way to go.
As long as people trust fiat currencies, that is still the only sensible choice as money. Before that trust fails, you need something real, whether its gold or toilet roll.
walm said:
And RufusGTI was bang on the money (real money not e-money) with his point about the KYC/AML requirements.
I tried and thankfully failed to buy a few bitcoins from MtGox.
A scan of my passport and bank statement still wasn't enough for them to let me set up an account.
It was easier to open a spread betting account and buy through that.
Still, at least some potentially shady people now have your passport and bank detailsI tried and thankfully failed to buy a few bitcoins from MtGox.
A scan of my passport and bank statement still wasn't enough for them to let me set up an account.
It was easier to open a spread betting account and buy through that.
swimd said:
I think there's a very small chance that Bitcoin may find a use if our banking/financial system collapses in its entirety, simply because it's a somewhat time tested and working infrastructure but the odds of that happening are somewhere around 0.0001% in my eyes.
And in this scenario, how do you think you're going to get online to use your bitcoins?Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff