Mum gives me her house, how to deal with care costs later on

[anonymous-user]

^ Bang on. To belittle it is just ignorant but many will never have to go through it themselves so have no concept.

[Ken Figenus]

True - but we can just be talking just help driving them about and taking the bins out where mobility is impaired - its not all palliative.

[ali_kat]

In which case, there is no need to worry about them needing to be in a care home!

[Ken Figenus]

Not quite so simple as that. This: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36310617

[Countdown]

ali_kat said:

It's not just your career; which I explained to you the other day

It's your WHOLE life.

It's just you, looking after an sick parent 24/7. There is no respite; no one is going to come & 'babysit' to give you a break.

You try & sleep when they sleep, but with one ear open to hear mobility and your nostrils open for smells.

This is possibly a lack of knowledge on my part and, if so, I apologise in advance.

For "most" people in care homes is there 24/7 1 to 1 care both during waking hours and also close montioring when they're asleep?

Where people require a higher level of care for medical reasons isn't this paid for by the NHS?

And, if they DO require a higher level of care and it isn't covered by the NHS, why not use the proceeds from selling the house to pay for it rather than passing this to the kids as their inheritance?

[ali_kat]

Ken Figenus said:

Not quite so simple as that. This: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36310617

There is a world of difference between a carer and a care home.

A carer will pop in & wash/feed/dress them whatever is required, then leave them alone.

A care home is there 24/7 for nursing and care as applicable to that particular person.

[ali_kat]

Countdown said:

This is possibly a lack of knowledge on my part and, if so, I apologise in advance.

That's ok, every day is a school day

Countdown said:

For "most" people in care homes is there 24/7 1 to 1 care both during waking hours and also close montioring when they're asleep?

It's not 121 care, but then they are trained and so 121 care isn't really required; they have enough staff to cover 24/7 with regular checks on sleeping patients and staff on call if an emergency clean up is required.

If you are looking after your parents; its just you. As your sibling can't afford to give up their life too. (Well actually, as you've said your parents live in a 7 bed, you probably both could afford to But most of us, not )

Countdown said:

Where people require a higher level of care for medical reasons isn't this paid for by the NHS

And, if they DO require a higher level of care and it isn't covered by the NHS, why not use the proceeds from selling the house to pay for it rather than passing this to the kids as their inheritance?

If they don't have the £££ yes

If they do then... Well, you're looking at upwards of £500/week to look after someone in a private home; more if they have Dementia/something else that needs Nursing.

Region/Cost per week - Care home/Care home with nursing
East Midlands £525 / £681
East of England £659 / £813
London £628 / £889
North East £522 / £631
North West £471 / £678
Northern Ireland £483 / £624
Scotland £534 / £704
South East £669 / £920
South West £578 / £844
Wales £517 / £676
West Midlands £529 / £731
Yorkshire and the Humber £513 / £683

Isn't that the whole point of the debate? How is it fair that Joe can not work a day in his life and get it free but Frank who has worked all his life, does?

[Countdown]

Thanks for the other stuff. With regards to the following point...

ali_kat said:

Isn't that the whole point of the debate? How is it fair that Joe can not work a day in his life and get it free but Frank who has worked all his life, does?

For me it comes down to personal attitudes. Just because others behave in a certain way doesn't mean you or I should sink to their level.

[Ken Figenus]

I think the financial approach to care is a little more complex than that - especially for those of us who remember how the State used to provide based on your lifelong contributions to the system. Now the local council has powers of intrusion into your affairs that were unimaginable 25 years ago. I'm even old enough to remember free University and GRANTS - what a novel concept! But now its pay, pay and pay again for everything and all as they crucify all local services. I'm not sure where all the money goes as we have never been richer as a country but I know that the surgery, the hospital, the clinic, the library, the police station et all have closed where my parents live...they are angling for the village school now... >sorry to digress but it does build up an attitude in one<

[ali_kat]

As I said before, I was lucky as my brother wasn't working & he and his family could move in

But I understand why people object; it's not a fair system

[Guvernator]

Ken Figenus said:

I think the financial approach to care is a little more complex than that - especially for those of us who remember how the State used to provide based on your lifelong contributions to the system. Now the local council has powers of intrusion into your affairs that were unimaginable 25 years ago. I'm even old enough to remember free University and GRANTS - what a novel concept! But now its pay, pay and pay again for everything and all as they crucify all local services. I'm not sure where all the money goes as we have never been richer as a country but I know that the surgery, the hospital, the clinic, the library, the police station et all have closed where my parents live...they are angling for the village school now... >sorry to digress but it does build up an attitude in one<

^^^^ This, we seem to pay more in tax every year and get less back in terms of services\support from local and central government, why is this? I've been to countries which have considerably less tax income then the UK and yet they seem to be able to offer more. We don't seem to get very good value for money for our tax at all.

As for care, as other posters have said above, if\when our parents need care they'll be moving in with us or my sister, whoever happens to have the space and more importantly time. I find it very weird that people think it's OK to cart someone off who has looked after you for the first 20 years of your life into a care home so that they don't inconvenience your life.

If they need extra care we'll get a nurse or carer in to look after them while we are at work but they'll be looked after by us\other family for the majority of the time as this is the way it's been done for generations in my parents culture and I don't intend to change it. I don't even think the word care home exists in our vocabulary.

[walm]

Guvernator said:

I've been to countries which have considerably less tax income then the UK and yet they seem to be able to offer more. We don't seem to get very good value for money for our tax at all.

Don't forget there are some countries with absolutely huge natural resource reserves who happily supplement government tax income with income earned from those resources.

[mph1977]

Ken Figenus said:

I think the financial approach to care is a little more complex than that - especially for those of us who remember how the State used to provide based on your lifelong contributions to the system. <snip>

ah those rose tinted spectacles hiding the ritualised abuse in the workhouses> 'long stay geriatric hospitals' and county pauper lunatic asylums in addition to the abuses carried out by individuals working within them ...

[ali_kat]

mph1977 said:

Ken Figenus said:

I think the financial approach to care is a little more complex than that - especially for those of us who remember how the State used to provide based on your lifelong contributions to the system. <snip>

ah those rose tinted spectacles hiding the ritualised abuse in the workhouses> 'long stay geriatric hospitals' and county pauper lunatic asylums in addition to the abuses carried out by individuals working within them ...

That's not what he was saying; and you know that

My Grandmother's generation benefited from care based on lifelong contributions, and she died in the early 90s

[mph1977]

ali_kat said:

mph1977 said:

Ken Figenus said:

I think the financial approach to care is a little more complex than that - especially for those of us who remember how the State used to provide based on your lifelong contributions to the system. <snip>

ah those rose tinted spectacles hiding the ritualised abuse in the workhouses> 'long stay geriatric hospitals' and county pauper lunatic asylums in addition to the abuses carried out by individuals working within them ...

That's not what he was saying; and you know that

My Grandmother's generation benefited from care based on lifelong contributions, and she died in the early 90s

and the long stay geratric hospitals (workhouses) and county pauper lunatic asylums lasted until that time ...
I have worked with people who were part of the closing and transferring to group homes / carehomes with Nursing of the these places... many of these warehouses of misery were open until the transition to NHS trusts (St Johns Lincoln closed 1989 , Storthes Hall closed 1991) parts of some sites remained in use for clinical care much much later into the era of NHS trusts ...

Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 25th May 17:45

[Ken Figenus]

Guvernator said:

^^^^ This, we seem to pay more in tax every year and get less back in terms of services\support from local and central government, why is this? I've been to countries which have considerably less tax income then the UK and yet they seem to be able to offer more. We don't seem to get very good value for money for our tax at all.

As for care, as other posters have said above, if\when our parents need care they'll be moving in with us or my sister, whoever happens to have the space and more importantly time. I find it very weird that people think it's OK to cart someone off who has looked after you for the first 20 years of your life into a care home so that they don't inconvenience your life.

If they need extra care we'll get a nurse or carer in to look after them while we are at work but they'll be looked after by us\other family for the majority of the time as this is the way it's been done for generations in my parents culture and I don't intend to change it. I don't even think the word care home exists in our vocabulary.

Same wavelength and I suspect a touch of a more Asian approach as others talk about English workhouses. Bravo

[mph1977]

Ken Figenus said:

Same wavelength and I suspect a touch of a more Asian approach as others talk about English workhouses. Bravo

when people talk aobut the state deliveirng care based on a lfeitme;s contributions the workhouse is exactly what they are alluding to ...

such upstanding institutions such as Stanley Royd 'Hospital' which managed to kill 19 'patients in 1984 by giving them salmonella ...

http://www.nhsmanagers.net/guest-editorials/dark-c...

[Ozzie Osmond]

Guvernator said:

we seem to pay more in tax every year and get less back in terms of services\support from local and central government, why is this? I've been to countries which have considerably less tax income then the UK and yet they seem to be able to offer more. We don't seem to get very good value for money for our tax at all.

I think there are some basic issues,

1. The mahoosive cost of people at the bottom of the pile who rely on the state for absolutely everything.

2. The mind-bending inefficiency of many public services, which includes the curious statistic that public sector workers are far more likely to be "off sick" than private sector workers.

3. The soaring cost of running an NHS service when more and more complex treatments are becoming available.

4. The growing number of old folks as life expectancy increases. You can't fund 25 years of State Pension by working 45 years and paying 2% National Insurance - the numbers simply don't work.

[mph1977]

Ozzie Osmond said:

<snip>
2. <snip>, which includes the curious statistic that public sector workers are far more likely to be "off sick" than private sector workers.

<snip>

not this old chestnut again ...