Property Investments - Dead?
Discussion
Is the market in property investments still worth pursuing? By that I mean improvements and renovations to properties in order to flip and turn a quick-ish profit. All the houses I've seen for sale recently seem to be priced in such a way that you couldn't enhance them and get your money back let alone turn a profit, unless you were yourself a builder or very skilled and with lots of time on your hands. Thoughts, collective? Ta
think you hit the nail on the head there, as an amateur you are basically just selling your time per hour doing DIY...fine if you accept that, have plenty of free time and are handy at all the different trades.
As soon as you start to do it as a business, employ people, you really need to know what you are doing to make it pay (like most professions)
As soon as you start to do it as a business, employ people, you really need to know what you are doing to make it pay (like most professions)
bayleaf said:
I honk you've missed the boat by about 15 years.
well this is what i was thinking tbh. Also it seems that everywhere just gets snaffled by developers before it even hits the market, or the deals are done massively over the asking just to secure it all. How the f
k does anyone trade up these days then? Feels a bit defeatist to just focus on paying off the mortgage, but maybe that's just what to do.Blown2CV said:
bayleaf said:
I honk you've missed the boat by about 15 years.
well this is what i was thinking tbh. Also it seems that everywhere just gets snaffled by developers before it even hits the market, or the deals are done massively over the asking just to secure it all. How the fk does anyone trade up these days then? Feels a bit defeatist to just focus on paying off the mortgage, but maybe that's just what to do.A lot depends on luck and the area you live in of course. Up North I had a neighbor who spent £60K and 7 years of his life "doing up" a property, sold it and proudly told me he had "made" £90k but once you actually took inflation into account he had made a loss in real terms, let alone the 7 years of spare time he'd put into the place
bogie said:
Well there are some things in certain areas that add more value to a property than they cost. Or you buy run down places and put the effort in.
A lot depends on luck and the area you live in of course. Up North I had a neighbor who spent £60K and 7 years of his life "doing up" a property, sold it and proudly told me he had "made" £90k but once you actually took inflation into account he had made a loss in real terms, let alone the 7 years of spare time he'd put into the place
I think that's part of the issue. It's now common knowledge that it's possible to renovate and flip houses that it's too competitive and the public don't make rational decisions. You can't win against someone who hasn't done any sums but has just received an inheritance payout or been laid off from a job they've spent 25 years in. Homes under the hammer is full of them. A lot depends on luck and the area you live in of course. Up North I had a neighbor who spent £60K and 7 years of his life "doing up" a property, sold it and proudly told me he had "made" £90k but once you actually took inflation into account he had made a loss in real terms, let alone the 7 years of spare time he'd put into the place
Might just build my own house but then I've got to compete to acquire the f
king land I suppose. Still fairly easy to do it up north where we are. There's a glut of well maintained but drastically dated 3 & 4 bed detached 1960-1970s build homes being sold as the owners are passing away, going into homes or simply downsizing.
Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong. I've been looking at dated detached places around 3 bed with OK garden, with a view to extending and opening up a bit and creating some light. Would probs end up sinking double the investment, say £60k+. They're going for the sort of money that you'd struggle to break even. I'd have to move into and live in it rather than on to the next.
you haven't "missed the boat" don't worry 
It's just about getting in there quick as the good ones don't stick around like they used to.
Be registered with your local agents as a hot buyer with cash ready to go.
set up rightmove alerts in the areas you are looking and check them everyday.
Register with and keep an eye on the local auction sites for new properties coming up for sale and make pre-auction bids.
I and people far wealthier than me are still flipping property for a living so ignore the naysayers!
Drop me a message if you want any advice.
It's just about getting in there quick as the good ones don't stick around like they used to.
Be registered with your local agents as a hot buyer with cash ready to go.
set up rightmove alerts in the areas you are looking and check them everyday.
Register with and keep an eye on the local auction sites for new properties coming up for sale and make pre-auction bids.
I and people far wealthier than me are still flipping property for a living so ignore the naysayers!
Drop me a message if you want any advice.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Still fairly easy to do it up north where we are. There's a glut of well maintained but drastically dated 3 & 4 bed detached 1960-1970s build homes being sold as the owners are passing away, going into homes or simply downsizing.
Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
I don't know what part of up north you are, but in my part of up north (Derbyshire) I'm not seeing anything on the market with an asking price that leaves room for doing up and selling on, even for only a small profit.Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
mike74 said:
I don't know what part of up north you are, but in my part of up north (Derbyshire) I'm not seeing anything on the market with an asking price that leaves room for doing up and selling on, even for only a small profit.
Where he's talking about, we don't class Derbyshire as North...!!mike74 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Still fairly easy to do it up north where we are. There's a glut of well maintained but drastically dated 3 & 4 bed detached 1960-1970s build homes being sold as the owners are passing away, going into homes or simply downsizing.
Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
I don't know what part of up north you are, but in my part of up north (Derbyshire) I'm not seeing anything on the market with an asking price that leaves room for doing up and selling on, even for only a small profit.Trick is doing them up to the market, late 20's early 30's couples who are looking to get married and start a family.
The thing with this market is they're totally absent of skill and want everything up front and on the drip.
Paint all the interior woodwork and walls white, fit el cheapo remote control fire, fake oak doors, howdens kitchen and modern bathroom with a square shaped basin and floating bog. Fire some cheap oatmeal carpets throughout and they'll lap it up
House purchase £150k, capital spend on upgrades £30k and sell for £215k less costs. Sure it's not a huge profit margin but if you're doing a couple up at a time it's relatively easy money for not much effort.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I wouldn't call it crack smoking idiocy, but as a plan to make money it's a way off.
Do you have any experience in this other than perhaps DIY?
no none at all... i mean i am aware of this stuff... is it basically impossible unless i have the skills to do it all myself and am prepared to invest years of my time? I'm not averse to the idea of living in the one we're in and buying a doing up additional ones in a relatively basic fashion as another posted suggested.Do you have any experience in this other than perhaps DIY?
Blown2CV said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I wouldn't call it crack smoking idiocy, but as a plan to make money it's a way off.
Do you have any experience in this other than perhaps DIY?
no none at all... i mean i am aware of this stuff... is it basically impossible unless i have the skills to do it all myself and am prepared to invest years of my time? I'm not averse to the idea of living in the one we're in and buying a doing up additional ones in a relatively basic fashion as another posted suggested.Do you have any experience in this other than perhaps DIY?
My old man made all his money in houses and had quite a few sage words of advice on the topic, first was always thus;
Never, ever ever ever, do a single piece of work to your home for investment or resale. Do the work on your home because it's what you and your family either want or need. Simple as that.
That's your home sorted, but what about your house? Because if you're looking at investment it shouldn't be your home, simply a house, a tangible asset like any other investment. Do whatever will either make it sell, make it rent or raise it's value by at least 2 times investment. Spend £20k on your house, try to get £40k net back and if you can't walk away.
So you want to look at a house that can be extended by a certain amount to increase it's living space and in your case in particular, increase in value to then sell and move up the ladder. Great.
Only problem is, what about all those people who will want to do the same but call it their forever home and not move until their kids resent them and they're pissing on the sofa reading the daily mail?
How can you bid against someone who isn't looking to make profit?
Simple answer is you can't. Not unless you get lucky and get in first and find a steal, which as you've already found is pretty hard.
Plus, why on earth do you want to go to all the trouble of building extensions, increasing window surfaces, fancy landscaping etc? Because it looks cool on grand designs?
Or because it'll make you the most money? Because the simple answer is in most properties it won't.
For all that faff you could have had two or three starter homes rolled over and awaiting the sales to go through if done right, each turning a smaller but easily more achievable profit.
Plus as described, if you know what you're doing such as with simple plumbing, kitchen fitting, decorating and basic joinery you'll have more chance of turning your 30 hours a week labour into some profit instead of giving shares out in your project to whichever tradesman you contract in.
Hope that helps, as I said at the top of my long drawn out post, I'm sure some of this will be contradictory as I can't possibly know your exact circumstances but if I could tell you the amount of smart people who get into this game with the same great ideas and end up with a rental ball and chain around their necks as they simply can't get any profit or break even on some vanity project. Some DIY skills and a wife who reads interior decorating magazines does not a property developer make.
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