CrossOver Help
Discussion
Hi
I have now purchased a BK Sub - p12300 SB DF
Details below
I have the MINX22 x5 around the room and i was wondering what people recommend as the best cross over settings?
Any suggestions? Currently i think the default set on my Pioneer VSX-930 is 80mhz
Thanks
Nick
www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/P12300SB-DF.htm
System Type: Active System with Variable Freq bass filter and 50 Litre Sealed Enclosure
Frequency Response at -3dB:
In your front room -3dB lower than 20Hz !!!
Amplifier Input / Output Impedance: High Level 100K - Low Level 10K
Gain Control Range: 60dB
Drive Unit Impedance: 4 Ohm
Mains Input: 230V / 50Hz
Dimensions: 400D x 460H x 400W
Weight: 27.7kg
Features
2 years warranty
True 300W RMS (600W) peakdiscrete Bipolar amplifier
Truly hand built in Great Britain, when we claim hand built we mean hand built, as there are no SMD components or other automatic placement devices.
Downward Firing 300mm (12") long throw heavy duty loudspeaker with 8 spoke cast aluminium basket, stacked magnets and vented pole piece
Continuously variable frequency control
Audiophile grade toroidal transformers
Gas Tight Neutrik connection for long term consistency of sound quality
Separate controls for high and low-level input adjustment
Simultaneous connection of high and low level sources
ASP automatic speaker protection audibly transparent driver protection
Auto detect
IEC Power Socket
I have now purchased a BK Sub - p12300 SB DF
Details below
I have the MINX22 x5 around the room and i was wondering what people recommend as the best cross over settings?
Any suggestions? Currently i think the default set on my Pioneer VSX-930 is 80mhz
Thanks
Nick
www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/P12300SB-DF.htm
System Type: Active System with Variable Freq bass filter and 50 Litre Sealed Enclosure
Frequency Response at -3dB:
In your front room -3dB lower than 20Hz !!!
Amplifier Input / Output Impedance: High Level 100K - Low Level 10K
Gain Control Range: 60dB
Drive Unit Impedance: 4 Ohm
Mains Input: 230V / 50Hz
Dimensions: 400D x 460H x 400W
Weight: 27.7kg
Features
2 years warranty
True 300W RMS (600W) peakdiscrete Bipolar amplifier
Truly hand built in Great Britain, when we claim hand built we mean hand built, as there are no SMD components or other automatic placement devices.
Downward Firing 300mm (12") long throw heavy duty loudspeaker with 8 spoke cast aluminium basket, stacked magnets and vented pole piece
Continuously variable frequency control
Audiophile grade toroidal transformers
Gas Tight Neutrik connection for long term consistency of sound quality
Separate controls for high and low-level input adjustment
Simultaneous connection of high and low level sources
ASP automatic speaker protection audibly transparent driver protection
Auto detect
IEC Power Socket
What amp are you using? Normally you'd set the crossover on the amp at (say) 80Hz with the speakers set to 'small' and then on the sub turn the crossover knob to its highest setting so the sub crossover isn't interfering.
If your amp has a way of setting up the sound using a mic then that gives you a first pass at the adjustments of sound and time delay, it may well choose 80Hz and 'small' anyway...
The positioning of the sub in the room is another thing that often requires some experimentation.
If your amp has a way of setting up the sound using a mic then that gives you a first pass at the adjustments of sound and time delay, it may well choose 80Hz and 'small' anyway...
The positioning of the sub in the room is another thing that often requires some experimentation.
- Edit* missed the bit about your amp. Try the auto setup first and see what it comes up with.
The speakers go down to 120hz, so set your amp so all speakers are small, and the crossover to 120hz.
Then sit where you listen and get someone to adjust the gain on the sub while listening to something with some decent bass, you want turn it up to the point where it is is noticeable and then knock it back a touch, you want to notice it when it is off, not when it is is on, if that makes sense?
You can then tweak on the amp if you need to in 1db steps.
Then sit where you listen and get someone to adjust the gain on the sub while listening to something with some decent bass, you want turn it up to the point where it is is noticeable and then knock it back a touch, you want to notice it when it is off, not when it is is on, if that makes sense?
You can then tweak on the amp if you need to in 1db steps.
I have the same sub as you; congratulations!
I have full size floor standers and have set them to small so I can cross over at 80hz. Turn the knob on the sub up to 120hz (max) crossover point so the amp can handle bass management. Now on your amp set the gain of the sub to 0 and adjust the low gain on the sub to around 45% and adjust by ear with a good variety of deep bass music. Soon you'll have it sounding just right.
I downloaded an 80hz test tone and played it to set the phase but it was loudest at 0 which means that's where it matches the speakers at the crossover point.
Why 80hz? Why not? The sub goes down way below that and is not directional below 80hz. It also gives you the max headroom to keep your AV amp happy.
Of course, if your speakers don't go as low as 80hz, ignore most of the above and set the crossover point to just above the lowest frequency response of your speakers.
It's a cracking sub, enjoy!
I have full size floor standers and have set them to small so I can cross over at 80hz. Turn the knob on the sub up to 120hz (max) crossover point so the amp can handle bass management. Now on your amp set the gain of the sub to 0 and adjust the low gain on the sub to around 45% and adjust by ear with a good variety of deep bass music. Soon you'll have it sounding just right.
I downloaded an 80hz test tone and played it to set the phase but it was loudest at 0 which means that's where it matches the speakers at the crossover point.
Why 80hz? Why not? The sub goes down way below that and is not directional below 80hz. It also gives you the max headroom to keep your AV amp happy.
Of course, if your speakers don't go as low as 80hz, ignore most of the above and set the crossover point to just above the lowest frequency response of your speakers.
It's a cracking sub, enjoy!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th May 20:19
gizlaroc said:
The speakers go down to 120hz, so set your amp so all speakers are small, and the crossover to 120hz.
Then sit where you listen and get someone to adjust the gain on the sub while listening to something with some decent bass, you want turn it up to the point where it is is noticeable and then knock it back a touch, you want to notice it when it is off, not when it is is on, if that makes sense?
You can then tweak on the amp if you need to in 1db steps.
Then sit where you listen and get someone to adjust the gain on the sub while listening to something with some decent bass, you want turn it up to the point where it is is noticeable and then knock it back a touch, you want to notice it when it is off, not when it is is on, if that makes sense?
You can then tweak on the amp if you need to in 1db steps.
Agreed with the setup method, particularly about being aware when its off rather than on.One comment though. The 120Hz spec for the sats is likely to be anechoic / free space and they aren't likely to be used that way. Depending of the degree of boundary loading the satellite's low frequency limit should be lower than 120Hz; I'd set the sub rolloff at 80-85 so that its hard to locate its position.
Subjectively, peaks in 90-120hz region are usually more of a problem than troughs.
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 25th May 11:56
I think it is well worth the OP downloading a test tone sweep, one that goes from 300hz down, and having a listen to it through his speakers, with them crossing over so high I am sure he will hear when they start to drop off.
One with video is a good idea so you can see what frequency is playing on screen as it plays.
There are loads of free ones out there.
The reason I think it might be a good idea to set it at 120hz to start off with is, it will be more apparent when the sub is set too loud, it may make him back off with it a bit.
One with video is a good idea so you can see what frequency is playing on screen as it plays.
There are loads of free ones out there.
The reason I think it might be a good idea to set it at 120hz to start off with is, it will be more apparent when the sub is set too loud, it may make him back off with it a bit.
Hi chaps
I would like to apologies in advance for the lack of understanding in home audio
So i spent a few hours setting the sub and speakers up. I went through the automatic mic set up which came with the AMP and it went through 10 mins or so of sound checks.
After the crossover freq was automatically set to 150, looking at the spec of the speakers the max is 125 for the MINX22 so the next setting was 100 so i moved it down to that for the crossover freq, is that ok?
I need a bit of basic help now.
All these dials. what do they mean. I have tried moving them to get an idea but i am struggling to understand what Phase/Freq/Lo and High level gain mean
Currently i have them all in the middle with low and high near the max
Also, i made a schoolboy error when cabling the room. I only left a spare 2 core cable near the sub so i am a single cable short for the High Level input. is that correct? i need 3 cores to wire the high level input in?
Thanks
Nick
I would like to apologies in advance for the lack of understanding in home audio
So i spent a few hours setting the sub and speakers up. I went through the automatic mic set up which came with the AMP and it went through 10 mins or so of sound checks.
After the crossover freq was automatically set to 150, looking at the spec of the speakers the max is 125 for the MINX22 so the next setting was 100 so i moved it down to that for the crossover freq, is that ok?
I need a bit of basic help now.
All these dials. what do they mean. I have tried moving them to get an idea but i am struggling to understand what Phase/Freq/Lo and High level gain mean
Currently i have them all in the middle with low and high near the max
Also, i made a schoolboy error when cabling the room. I only left a spare 2 core cable near the sub so i am a single cable short for the High Level input. is that correct? i need 3 cores to wire the high level input in?
Thanks
Nick
Just found this so will do this tonight
Next, adjust the gain (or volume). This is the important part, and the part that I’ve done incorrectly oh-so-many times—but it’s also the easiest. Start playing a song, and turn the subwoofer down until you can’t hear the subwoofer anymore. Then, turn the gain up until you can just start to hear it start to fill in the bass. Then stop. You’re done.
If you have a phase switch, switch it between 0 and 180 degrees and see if you hear a difference. One may sound better than the other depending on your room and gear. You can read more about what phase is here, but in practice, it’s pretty simple: pick whichever one sounds better.
Next, adjust the gain (or volume). This is the important part, and the part that I’ve done incorrectly oh-so-many times—but it’s also the easiest. Start playing a song, and turn the subwoofer down until you can’t hear the subwoofer anymore. Then, turn the gain up until you can just start to hear it start to fill in the bass. Then stop. You’re done.
If you have a phase switch, switch it between 0 and 180 degrees and see if you hear a difference. One may sound better than the other depending on your room and gear. You can read more about what phase is here, but in practice, it’s pretty simple: pick whichever one sounds better.
Have you read the manual? http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/P12-300%20M...
Assuming your AV amp has an LFE/sub output, set yours up exactly like the picture above. Plug the sub output of your amp into the low level input (Right/mono) of the sub.
Go to manual speaker settings in your amp's menu, it will probably set the sub's level to something like -3db, set it to 0, then adjust the gain on the sub to taste so it blends with your main speakers. As said above, play something with a heavy bassline, turn up the low gain until you can hear it thumping away, then knock it back until it blends in. If you've done it right, you shouldn't be able to hear it booming or dominating the music.
Your Minx speakers only go down to 120hz so set the crossover point ON THE AMP to that or whatever is closest. Leave the settings on the sub alone, only adjusting the volume with the low gain until it sounds right.
If I were you, I'd invest in some bigger, full range front speakers and and then set the crossover to 80hz. That's the point where most people cannot detect where the bass is coming from. At 120hz, it's possible you'll be able to tell that it's coming from your sub. Much better to get fronts with a larger crossover range. Eg: 20hz-25,000 hz. I bought a pair of these from eBay about 2 years go and paired with a decent amp and sub, sound absolutely fantastic. They are great value right now: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ProAc-Studio-125-Speaker...
See my earlier post about setting the phase, start with 0 degrees and go from there. I all likelihood, it will sound best left on 0
Assuming your AV amp has an LFE/sub output, set yours up exactly like the picture above. Plug the sub output of your amp into the low level input (Right/mono) of the sub.
Go to manual speaker settings in your amp's menu, it will probably set the sub's level to something like -3db, set it to 0, then adjust the gain on the sub to taste so it blends with your main speakers. As said above, play something with a heavy bassline, turn up the low gain until you can hear it thumping away, then knock it back until it blends in. If you've done it right, you shouldn't be able to hear it booming or dominating the music.
Your Minx speakers only go down to 120hz so set the crossover point ON THE AMP to that or whatever is closest. Leave the settings on the sub alone, only adjusting the volume with the low gain until it sounds right.
If I were you, I'd invest in some bigger, full range front speakers and and then set the crossover to 80hz. That's the point where most people cannot detect where the bass is coming from. At 120hz, it's possible you'll be able to tell that it's coming from your sub. Much better to get fronts with a larger crossover range. Eg: 20hz-25,000 hz. I bought a pair of these from eBay about 2 years go and paired with a decent amp and sub, sound absolutely fantastic. They are great value right now: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ProAc-Studio-125-Speaker...
See my earlier post about setting the phase, start with 0 degrees and go from there. I all likelihood, it will sound best left on 0
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 27th May 12:19
You only need a single phono from the sub pre out on your amp to the mono in on your sub. Don't bother with hi level.
Leave the amp at 100hz crossover. (you sure there is not a 120hz or similar? even if you do it manually??)
Set phase top 0º.
Set the Filter to OUT, this allows your amp to do the crossover.
Also set the FREQUENCY to 120hz as well, shouldn't make a difference if FILTER is set to OUT.
Now play music and get someone to adjust the sub gain so you can tell it is on, but it doesn't muddy the sound. You want it to be pretty subtle.
Now you want someone to adjust the PHASE while you listen in your position, you are simply making sure the sub and speakers are moving together and not cancelling each other out, the one with the strongest bass is correct.
Leave the amp at 100hz crossover. (you sure there is not a 120hz or similar? even if you do it manually??)
Set phase top 0º.
Set the Filter to OUT, this allows your amp to do the crossover.
Also set the FREQUENCY to 120hz as well, shouldn't make a difference if FILTER is set to OUT.
Now play music and get someone to adjust the sub gain so you can tell it is on, but it doesn't muddy the sound. You want it to be pretty subtle.
Now you want someone to adjust the PHASE while you listen in your position, you are simply making sure the sub and speakers are moving together and not cancelling each other out, the one with the strongest bass is correct.
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