European Union - Ramifications
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
smifffymoto said:
I think the bigger problem now rather than Brexit is the implosion of UK polictically parties and the UK now appearing to be a rudderless ship.
Agreed; we've heard from everyone except Boris who we expect, and by rights jolly well ought to, lead us through this. Instead Sturgeon has stolen the headlines and caused extra trouble. We need to see a viable Leave government starting to make real plans.And please, no more bloody Guardian links. Not are they only incredibly unhelpful, my FB feed is full of aggrieved Remainders firing them about like stucco.
Probably the biggest hurdle facing the Leave camp and Britain as a whole is that presently the thicko bigots who spend their day sitting on regional park benches blaming everyone else for their inability to make a go of their life think that 52% of the UK population are the same as them.
Sump said:
I'd say the biggest hurdle is the fact that everyone knows it is a mistake to leave the EU and no one wants to be the person taking the UK out of the EU.
'No one got fired for buying IBM' (but no-one got promoted either). Thickness isn't reserved just for those who want to live in a country unfettered by the whims of a foreign elite; some of those who voted to remain think that if they didn't they wouldn't be able to visit Europe any more. I bet the vast majority voted with their personal self-interest in mind. OK so you have the retards at one end, and the elite at the top. What about the middle?http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/my-guilt-trip-ov...
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 27th June 15:50
Sump said:
I'd say the biggest hurdle is the fact that everyone knows it is a mistake to leave the EU and no one wants to be the person taking the UK out of the EU.
Not sure. Cameron is the person who has taken the UK out of the EU should Parliament enact Article 50. And I'm not sure 'everyone knows it is a mistake', we are only a few days in and what we are looking at at present is all the panicy people doing what they do best and all the blame game punters doing what they do best. And there is never any upside to doing anything while they are all run about screaming. The people voted. We like to believe we live in a democracy but people need to start asking themselves just why they are demanding democracy be overturned?We have a set agenda now that will carry us until October at the latest and anyone who stands forward to replace Cameron as PM will only have one core stance and that will be whether they will enact article 50 or not. It's that simple. Either the new PM will be put into office on the basis that they will spearhead the exit or on the basis that they will not. Until then nothing has changed, nor will it change and in the meantime all of the candidates will have to focus on removing Farage from the equation as he is now surplus to any positive requirements going forward. And we will monitor the EU and our partners as the EU is finished without Britain to continuing to contribute to the machine and the more time that passes the more their cracks will show and the better our position of negotiation becomes.
I've also found it interesting that a core argument appears to be that we have not negotiated trade deals for over 40 years and that we lack the skill set to do so, while in the EU they have many fine professionals well versed in trade deals. Well, I sit and work in London and when London wants to do a deal and requires specific skills that are not available in London we simply hire them out from where they currently are. The world is full of very good individuals and teams with the required expertise and just a 5 minute walk around the City clearly displays that we are ruthlessly efficient and getting them to work for us. We are an international business hub, we don't need the required skilled labour to be here, we simply bring it in and pay what is needed to outbid the competition.
WinstonWolf said:
Sump said:
I'd say the biggest hurdle is the fact that everyone knows it is a mistake to leave the EU and no one wants to be the person taking the UK out of the EU.
I'd say seventeen million people would disagree with that...WinstonWolf said:
I'd say seventeen million people would disagree with that...
However, the other 43 million living in UK don't disagree.The 17 million will soon realise the £1 they had last week is worth 90p, tax rises are imminent, spending cuts will follow and the immigrants will still be coming in.
The turkeys voted for Christmas and it's time for Christmas dinner.
MarshPhantom said:
WinstonWolf said:
Sump said:
I'd say the biggest hurdle is the fact that everyone knows it is a mistake to leave the EU and no one wants to be the person taking the UK out of the EU.
I'd say seventeen million people would disagree with that...Ozzie Osmond said:
WinstonWolf said:
I'd say seventeen million people would disagree with that...
However, the other 43 million living in UK don't disagree.The 17 million will soon realise the £1 they had last week is worth 90p, tax rises are imminent, spending cuts will follow and the immigrants will still be coming in.
The turkeys voted for Christmas and it's time for Christmas dinner.
Simpo Two said:
Agreed; we've heard from everyone except Boris who we expect, and by rights jolly well ought to, lead us through this. Instead Sturgeon has stolen the headlines and caused extra trouble. We need to see a viable Leave government starting to make real plans.
And please, no more bloody Guardian links. Not are they only incredibly unhelpful, my FB feed is full of aggrieved Remainders firing them about like stucco.
Boris did a column in the Torygraph yesterday.And please, no more bloody Guardian links. Not are they only incredibly unhelpful, my FB feed is full of aggrieved Remainders firing them about like stucco.
Ozzie Osmond said:
However, the other 43 million living in UK don't disagree.
The 17 million will soon realise the £1 they had last week is worth 90p, tax rises are imminent, spending cuts will follow and the immigrants will still be coming in.
The turkeys voted for Christmas and it's time for Christmas dinner.
You say that but surely the turkeys are the ones who voted to continue the impoverishment of the people, the widening of the wealth divide, the formation of an EU army, the loss of the essential geographic buffer zone between Europe and Asia and the ultimate removal of the GBP, the only thing that stopped the UK from being one of the PIIGS?The 17 million will soon realise the £1 they had last week is worth 90p, tax rises are imminent, spending cuts will follow and the immigrants will still be coming in.
The turkeys voted for Christmas and it's time for Christmas dinner.
The Leave campaign may have used the monkey vote to win their objective but at least they had an objective of hone table merit rather than those who voted for something they don't believe in because they were scared or too in debt to risk the change needed to halt the insanity of the EU expansionist and military ambition.
We all know immigration isn't going to fall, we all know the next few years will see a little less money in our pockets, but I don't know anyone who is crazy enough to vote to support massive wealth divides, expansionist policies, the oppression of subjects or the loss of the GBP. Which is what a vote to remain meant.
Ask a Remainer if they want any of those things and few will say they do. Ask a Remainer for evidence that any political party in power has ever listened to them on these matters and done anything about it and they will struggle to answer. Ask a Remainer why they keep believing the same old promises that we will renegotiate when we know that will never happen and I'm yet to find one with an answer.
Remainers seem to be I distant on taking some intellectual moral high ground when in reality the majority are as monumentally f
king stupid, greedy, ignorant and self serving as their Brexit counterparts. DonkeyApple said:
We all know immigration isn't going to fall, we all know the next few years will see a little less money in our pockets, but I don't know anyone who is crazy enough to vote to support massive wealth divides, expansionist policies, the oppression of subjects or the loss of the GBP. Which is what a vote to remain meant.
I did.- Brexit won't help the wealth divide.
- I am pro-expansion.
- Subjects will be just as oppressed as before.
- GBP wasn't and isn't going away (just DOWN, now).
So, you might think a vote to exit was a shout against all those issues, it really wasn't, but even if it was, it isn't worth the economic risk involved.
I am genuinely interested but can you show where:
- Isolationist policies improve the wealth divide.
- Expansion is defacto bad.
- Why the GBP would have to go.
As for oppression? Literally not an issue, in my feeble mind, I am afraid. It's either a combo of the EU and Westminster oppressing me or just Westminster - not sure I care particularly one way or the other.
walm said:
DonkeyApple said:
We all know immigration isn't going to fall, we all know the next few years will see a little less money in our pockets, but I don't know anyone who is crazy enough to vote to support massive wealth divides, expansionist policies, the oppression of subjects or the loss of the GBP. Which is what a vote to remain meant.
I did.- Brexit won't help the wealth divide.
- I am pro-expansion.
- Subjects will be just as oppressed as before.
- GBP wasn't and isn't going away (just DOWN, now).
So, you might think a vote to exit was a shout against all those issues, it really wasn't, but even if it was, it isn't worth the economic risk involved.
I am genuinely interested but can you show where:
- Isolationist policies improve the wealth divide.
- Expansion is defacto bad.
- Why the GBP would have to go.
As for oppression? Literally not an issue, in my feeble mind, I am afraid. It's either a combo of the EU and Westminster oppressing me or just Westminster - not sure I care particularly one way or the other.
Expansion is good from a basic economic sense, add more consumers, make more profits. But look to the history of Europe and we have always had a geographic buffer between us and Asia/ME. Water on the southern limits and a series of countries to the East. Moving the borders directly up to the exact point of potential conflict has never once been shown to lead to anything other than conflict.
Isolationism? Agree. But not being part of an extremist vision is better. It would be very sad to be isolated but do you really think they can afford to isolate us?
The GBP would catagorically be removed in the future. The only reason the EU conceded to permit third party currencies was because they were not yet strong enough to enforce their will. Same with the desire for an EU army. It has been the presence of US military might that has kept Europe safe for 70 years. No domestic army can ever protect our borders, it can only serve to oppress the population.
In twenty years time when faced with those realities the EU will be too strong for us to do anything about it and it is very unlikely that simultaneously the US and China would be sufficiently economically weak to not enforce their will. It will transpire that last week was the perfect and last opportunity the UK will ever have to either reshape the current EU with the rest of Europe or have no part of the political juggernaut and where it is leading the rest of Europe.
RAFsmoggy said:
The British people will leave and Europe will follow and become strong again We are not anti European We never signed up to be governed by Europe but to trade with them Italy France and even Germany need to lose the yoke that is around their tired necks and trade with the world
What a load of massive naive nonsense, you honestly believe France and Germany don't already trade with the rest of the world?berlintaxi said:
What a load of massive naive nonsense, you honestly believe France and Germany don't already trade with the rest of the world?
I was directly at odds with Priti Patel during the referendum over her view that leaving the EU would allow us to trade more with India. My view was that we already could and the fact that we traded less than Germany was our failing not the EUs.DonkeyApple said:
walm said:
DonkeyApple said:
We all know immigration isn't going to fall, we all know the next few years will see a little less money in our pockets, but I don't know anyone who is crazy enough to vote to support massive wealth divides, expansionist policies, the oppression of subjects or the loss of the GBP. Which is what a vote to remain meant.
I did.- Brexit won't help the wealth divide.
- I am pro-expansion.
- Subjects will be just as oppressed as before.
- GBP wasn't and isn't going away (just DOWN, now).
So, you might think a vote to exit was a shout against all those issues, it really wasn't, but even if it was, it isn't worth the economic risk involved.
I am genuinely interested but can you show where:
- Isolationist policies improve the wealth divide.
- Expansion is defacto bad.
- Why the GBP would have to go.
As for oppression? Literally not an issue, in my feeble mind, I am afraid. It's either a combo of the EU and Westminster oppressing me or just Westminster - not sure I care particularly one way or the other.
Expansion is good from a basic economic sense, add more consumers, make more profits. But look to the history of Europe and we have always had a geographic buffer between us and Asia/ME. Water on the southern limits and a series of countries to the East. Moving the borders directly up to the exact point of potential conflict has never once been shown to lead to anything other than conflict.
Isolationism? Agree. But not being part of an extremist vision is better. It would be very sad to be isolated but do you really think they can afford to isolate us?
The GBP would catagorically be removed in the future. The only reason the EU conceded to permit third party currencies was because they were not yet strong enough to enforce their will. Same with the desire for an EU army. It has been the presence of US military might that has kept Europe safe for 70 years. No domestic army can ever protect our borders, it can only serve to oppress the population.
In twenty years time when faced with those realities the EU will be too strong for us to do anything about it and it is very unlikely that simultaneously the US and China would be sufficiently economically weak to not enforce their will. It will transpire that last week was the perfect and last opportunity the UK will ever have to either reshape the current EU with the rest of Europe or have no part of the political juggernaut and where it is leading the rest of Europe.
Jockers business will have a Brexit Bounce, certainly.
SELON said:
I sympathise with the arguments, bigger picture and all that, but to boil down "fiscal shock" into a more real world view: if it's a cold winter and GBP stays in the toilet, with no other support, "fiscal shock" means quite a few more (probably elderly and therefore probably Leave voters) people will be dead.
Jockers business will have a Brexit Bounce, certainly.
Drop in benefit costs also. Plus an increase in the supply of property and one less racist bigot. Everyone's a winner. Jockers business will have a Brexit Bounce, certainly.
Sump said:
I'd say the biggest hurdle is the fact that everyone knows it is a mistake to leave the EU and no one wants to be the person taking the UK out of the EU.
Blimey, did you see the results of that referendum we had last week ?It's certainly not a mistake to leave the EU and I have no idea where you get such a ridiculous idea.
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