European Union - Ramifications
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
A thought occurred to me today - will there be huge surge of immigration as half the population of eastern Europe makes a dash for UK before the shutters come down?
I thought that had already happened?It's got to be a possibility I suppose - in fact you would think if people were planning to do it "At some stage" they would do it ASAP before the rules changed.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th June 17:54
DonkeyApple said:
We will actually be OK but only if we are absolute b
ds and ruthless about it. The whole of the EU is open for pillaging just as it has been for 1000 years. If we are to grow, they must shrink. It's as simple as that. There's no sharing and being poorer together. We've always been richer than nearly all of Europe and I doubt anyone will be interested in that changing.
I agree and I think they will try to make an example of us so we need the right leader, one who will be tough. Can we resurrect Maggie?ds and ruthless about it. The whole of the EU is open for pillaging just as it has been for 1000 years. If we are to grow, they must shrink. It's as simple as that. There's no sharing and being poorer together. We've always been richer than nearly all of Europe and I doubt anyone will be interested in that changing. 
wormus said:
DonkeyApple said:
We will actually be OK but only if we are absolute bds and ruthless about it. The whole of the EU is open for pillaging just as it has been for 1000 years. If we are to grow, they must shrink. It's as simple as that. There's no sharing and being poorer together. We've always been richer than nearly all of Europe and I doubt anyone will be interested in that changing.
I agree and I think they will try to make an example of us so we need the right leader, one who will be tough. Can we resurrect Maggie?ds and ruthless about it. The whole of the EU is open for pillaging just as it has been for 1000 years. If we are to grow, they must shrink. It's as simple as that. There's no sharing and being poorer together. We've always been richer than nearly all of Europe and I doubt anyone will be interested in that changing. Was interesting to hear that UK allegedly stated their concern about immigration issues that subsequently looks like it was the catalyst for the 'leave' decision.
Was also no surprise that the UK didn't help matters due to the 'magnetic' power of the benefits system. Maybe there will be a mass migration program by those now looking to come to the UK but in the long run it probably wont matter in the scheme of things.
I think that the press is being a bit too negative about all of this, especially as others appear to be now looking to copy the UK.
On my selfish note, I hope that the £ recovers its value. I expected it to lose some value but remember it did have an artificial spurt when the view we were staying looked likely. Without that sudden growth, maybe it hasnt lost too much ground?
Interesting times ahead
CS Garth said:
twoblacklines said:
The big problem is most of the people who voted remain are stuck in 9-5's and all they care about is easy travel to Greece once a year.
Moron factor to 11 captainI haven't had a 9-5 job... Ever.
I know this seems amazing but you could travel perfectly well to any European country before the EU was invented. You just needed a passport. And you still do! Just because we've voted to leave doesn't mean they'll build an Iron Curtain. The EU is not North Korea.
I was reading the views of many country and political leaders in Europe and the rest of the world (because there is a rest of the world) and with one or two exceptions they were positive about maintaining links with the UK.
I was reading the views of many country and political leaders in Europe and the rest of the world (because there is a rest of the world) and with one or two exceptions they were positive about maintaining links with the UK.
Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 25th June 20:41
AMDBSTony said:
I agree we need a very strong and single minded leader who will push us through the short term difficulties we have ahead.
I think that the press is being a bit too negative about all of this, especially as others appear to be now looking to copy the UK.
On my selfish note, I hope that the £ recovers its value. I expected it to lose some value but remember it did have an artificial spurt when the view we were staying looked likely. Without that sudden growth, maybe it hasnt lost too much ground?
Interesting times ahead
Carrying on from my rant post, the key here is to sort out the domestic political squabbling, leave alone the inevitable squabbles that will happen when the new PM heads to Brussels. ASAP whoever wants a shot at PM needs to put their head above the parapet and get on with it. You can't let extremism and negativity start to seep in, otherwise UKIP mob and the protesters in London will wreak havoc and then you have your armageddon from political uncertainty and social unrest.I think that the press is being a bit too negative about all of this, especially as others appear to be now looking to copy the UK.
On my selfish note, I hope that the £ recovers its value. I expected it to lose some value but remember it did have an artificial spurt when the view we were staying looked likely. Without that sudden growth, maybe it hasnt lost too much ground?
Interesting times ahead
As for the currency, well before Brexit it's been a lot of central bank chess and everyone devaluing their own currency - Yellen has got her get out of jail free card for the rest of the year thanks to Brexit and White House elections end of the year so no hikes to come there, maybe she'll even find an excuse to cut as dollar rallies on safe haven demand. The BOJ are stuffed and shooting blanks so yen will easily be the strongest currency performer of the year given its own safe haven nature even above the dollar. The PBOC have been unusually quiet.... But they've never really been known for their transparency. The ECB and Draghi have the same problems they had before - he doesn't want a strong euro, but as alluded to there'll be a currency war - Carney hasn't had to lift a finger and weakened the currency, the danger here is stagflation and what he has in his arsenal to combat it.
desolate said:
Jockman said:
Outside of the south East, where is unaffordable housing in any major way?
Just sorted out deposits on great first time homes for the kids. Detached at less than £200k.
There is masses of affordable housing that I can find.
If you are on 18k a year it takes a long time to get a deposit together if you are living in rented.Just sorted out deposits on great first time homes for the kids. Detached at less than £200k.
There is masses of affordable housing that I can find.
Even if you are a couple who both work.
I just don't want people thinking that the south east (especially the London bubble) is an accurate reflection of life elsewhere.
What are our main bargaining chips?
Nato and military support of others?
It does seem that Europe and the usa are keen for us to do our bit in nato etc, and usa talk of our special relationship (when backing them up), but intend to be harsh trade wise. In America's case - to the back of the queue.
Nato and military support of others?
It does seem that Europe and the usa are keen for us to do our bit in nato etc, and usa talk of our special relationship (when backing them up), but intend to be harsh trade wise. In America's case - to the back of the queue.
whoami said:
Jockman said:
Simpo Two said:
I am amused to be assocated with a 'working clas protest vote'!
But yes, in an ironic twist, I associate more with Wolfie Smith than Brussels. 'Power to the People'? We have indeed had a quiet revolution.
Not only are you working class but also a racist, on benefits and over 55. But yes, in an ironic twist, I associate more with Wolfie Smith than Brussels. 'Power to the People'? We have indeed had a quiet revolution.
Oh and as Osborne said before the election you are also part of the super rich that will benefit from a Leave vote.
Go figure.
Help me Jockers, help me.
Oh, and apparently you now need to add homophobic (according to one of the numerous other, whining, threads) to your first descriptor.
I'll add it to the list.
plfrench said:
desolate said:
Jockman said:
Outside of the south East, where is unaffordable housing in any major way?
Just sorted out deposits on great first time homes for the kids. Detached at less than £200k.
There is masses of affordable housing that I can find.
If you are on 18k a year it takes a long time to get a deposit together if you are living in rented.Just sorted out deposits on great first time homes for the kids. Detached at less than £200k.
There is masses of affordable housing that I can find.
Even if you are a couple who both work.
1986 = 2.81
2015 = 7.49
Figures pulled from ONS charts:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity...
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-set...
philv said:
It does seem that Europe and the usa are keen for us to do our bit in nato etc, and usa talk of our special relationship (when backing them up), but intend to be harsh trade wise. In America's case - to the back of the queue.
I'd understand that from an EU country, but why America? Is Obama sore about the Boston Tea Party?what do you lot think of this view, circulating on FB?
some bloke said:
From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Simpo Two said:
philv said:
It does seem that Europe and the usa are keen for us to do our bit in nato etc, and usa talk of our special relationship (when backing them up), but intend to be harsh trade wise. In America's case - to the back of the queue.
I'd understand that from an EU country, but why America? Is Obama sore about the Boston Tea Party?But we are useful.
Simpo Two said:
I know this seems amazing but you could travel perfectly well to any European country before the EU was invented. You just needed a passport. And you still do! Just because we've voted to leave doesn't mean they'll build an Iron Curtain. The EU is not North Korea.
I was reading the views of many country and political leaders in Europe and the rest of the world (because there is a rest of the world) and with one or two exceptions they were positive about maintaining links with the UK.
Not even a full passport at one time. You could use a so called 'visitors passport' available over the counter at Post offices.I was reading the views of many country and political leaders in Europe and the rest of the world (because there is a rest of the world) and with one or two exceptions they were positive about maintaining links with the UK.
Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 25th June 20:41
Hugo a Gogo said:
what do you lot think of this view, circulating on FB?
Pretty much what I've been thinking too. I cannot believe that Boris Johnson honestly thought that leaving the EU would be a good idea, rather he thought that he could campaign for Leave with impunity, garner a lot of goodwill from rank-and-file Tories for a future leadership bid, but thinking that remain would prevail in the end. Now that he's actually gone and won it, though, how can he not take the leadership without looking like he never meant all those things he said? And if he does become prime minister it will be during a period of economic turmoil that in the minds of the electorate (and to a large degree in fact), is of his making, while many of the promises of the leave campaign (£350m a week, reducing immigration etc), vanish like the morning mist. The shine could come off good ol' BoJo pretty quickly, a la Gordon Brown. A great example of a pyrrhic victory.some bloke said:
From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
It's notable that many other arch-Eurosceptics like John Redwood are also strangely reticent to actually start the process of leaving the EU. Having been vocal in their opposition for decades you'd think they might want to get started asap, but perhaps they realise that they won't be able to continue to make a career out of opposing the EU if we're no longer in it.
grumbledoak said:
The result was only announced on Friday. Then Spineless Quitter's resignation. It is now Sunday morning! Of course no-one has done or said anything. They haven't had time to.
Indeed. I also find it disgusting how the remainers refuse to accept the outcome of a democratic process. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff