Discussion
twinturboz said:
Happy to help where I can as I'm sure others on here are too. As for mentoring I'm still on this journey myself far from a complete trader I'm sure there are others on here with far more experience but any questions just fire away.
Also if you have some free time I've found listening to some of these interviews are great, lots of wisdom tucked away in them.
https://chatwithtraders.com/podcast/
I'll have a look later when I'm home from work,thank you.Also if you have some free time I've found listening to some of these interviews are great, lots of wisdom tucked away in them.
https://chatwithtraders.com/podcast/
jonamv8 said:
The cost was in the initial spread. 1 point on FTSE and 1.2 points on both Forex.
My FTSE was manually closed as I felt it had run it's course, however I could have hung on for a few more points but I had stuff to do.
My GBP/USD was auto closed as it hit my limit.
My EUR/USD was manually closed out as I felt I'd got it wrong so wanted to limit losses while the GBP/USD continued up.
OK,let's pretend I'm a complete novice and ask you to explain ALL the jargon on this post.My FTSE was manually closed as I felt it had run it's course, however I could have hung on for a few more points but I had stuff to do.
My GBP/USD was auto closed as it hit my limit.
My EUR/USD was manually closed out as I felt I'd got it wrong so wanted to limit losses while the GBP/USD continued up.
I do know what the FTSE,Forex and the currency abbreviations are.
jonamv8 said:
avinalarf said:
jonamv8 said:
The cost was in the initial spread. 1 point on FTSE and 1.2 points on both Forex.
My FTSE was manually closed as I felt it had run it's course, however I could have hung on,,, for a few more points but I had stuff to do.
My GBP/USD was auto closed as it hit my limit.
My EUR/USD was manually closed out as I felt I'd got it wrong so wanted to limit losses while the GBP/USD continued up.
OK,let's pretend I'm a complete novice and ask you to explain ALL the jargon on this post.My FTSE was manually closed as I felt it had run it's course, however I could have hung on,,, for a few more points but I had stuff to do.
My GBP/USD was auto closed as it hit my limit.
My EUR/USD was manually closed out as I felt I'd got it wrong so wanted to limit losses while the GBP/USD continued up.
I do know what the FTSE,Forex and the currency abbreviations are.
When I say manually closed, I manually executed the trade to stop as opposed to having a predetermined stop point.
Let me know if I missed anything?
You're sitting there watching the screen and make your decision to buy/ sell ?
If so,in the seconds it takes to deal,the position could change,how do you avoid that delay.
When I bought the shares on HG the price I was offered was a tad more than the live price I'd been looking at on my screen.
Was that me or is that how it always is ?
I don't have the time to watch the screen all day so can I put in a deal to buy the share in a future date at a price I decide ?
Is there a charge for having a predetermined stop point ?
Is there a charge for the stop/loss facility ?
How do you limit exposure to losses whilst spread betting and is there a charge ?
Re. Points how do you equate that with cash value ? Do you put in the cash/point ratio before you deal ,that is say £50 a point.
On that basis if the FTSE lost 10 points you'd lose £500 ?
Do you have to pay dealing costs and stamp duty spread betting ?
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 11th August 14:21
jonamv8 said:
I've just gone long (BUY) on Bund. 11/08/16 13:30:18
Open 167.78
Stop Limit 167.57 to protect me against losses, potential loss of 21 points
Auto close trade at 168.48, a potential gain of 70 points although in reality I'd probably manually exit before but I could get called out of the office
Wish me luck
Good luck.....so that's 50/50 if you win....sharesy,sharesy. Open 167.78
Stop Limit 167.57 to protect me against losses, potential loss of 21 points
Auto close trade at 168.48, a potential gain of 70 points although in reality I'd probably manually exit before but I could get called out of the office
Wish me luck
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 11th August 14:30
Thanks Walm....
So that leads me to conclude that if you just fancy a punt,spread betting is the more efficient way to go.
Efficient in that you pay no stamp duty or dealing costs.
So IG are like bookies making their money from the bets that lose ?
I read that spread betting is very dangerous and that you can lose your pants.
Surely if you use stop losses this goes a long way to limiting a loss.
Unless you get carried away and apply to much leverage,what's the problem ?
Say I bet £20 a point on the FTSE with a stop loss of minus 10 points...the most I might lose is £200 ?
Don't understand....... £20 x 10( points ) = £200
No hang on ...from your example it'll be £2000 ?
So if the FTSE rises 10 points do I win £2000 ?
So that leads me to conclude that if you just fancy a punt,spread betting is the more efficient way to go.
Efficient in that you pay no stamp duty or dealing costs.
So IG are like bookies making their money from the bets that lose ?
I read that spread betting is very dangerous and that you can lose your pants.
Surely if you use stop losses this goes a long way to limiting a loss.
Unless you get carried away and apply to much leverage,what's the problem ?
Say I bet £20 a point on the FTSE with a stop loss of minus 10 points...the most I might lose is £200 ?
Don't understand....... £20 x 10( points ) = £200
No hang on ...from your example it'll be £2000 ?
So if the FTSE rises 10 points do I win £2000 ?
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 11th August 14:45
jonamv8 said:
Depends but I prefer it. Long term shares in an ISA is as tax efficient but that's a whole other discussion.
No stamp no dealing costs as walm says.
IG are yes but sometimes they just place your trade themselves so they are happy if you win, they make their cut from the spread. Someimes they will risk it and take your bet themselves depending how much exposure they have.
Spread big with no stops and yes you can lose your house, IG would pursue you and your assets.
£20 a point on FTSE requires a large account balance
Why a big account balance ?No stamp no dealing costs as walm says.
IG are yes but sometimes they just place your trade themselves so they are happy if you win, they make their cut from the spread. Someimes they will risk it and take your bet themselves depending how much exposure they have.
Spread big with no stops and yes you can lose your house, IG would pursue you and your assets.
£20 a point on FTSE requires a large account balance
Surely if you bet £20 a point, and you put a stop loss if the FTSE drops 5 point you lose £20 x 5 = £100
Or are you saying I'm actually betting on a movement of 0.01 x my position.
So that's £10,000 loss ?
jonamv8 said:
...
Margin and Leverage - You cannot open a £20 per point trade with 5 point stop loss for £100 as slippage may occur as detailed in walms explanation above. The stop is not guaranteed unless you pay for a guarantee.
No you are betting per point, not 0.01
Take a read of http://www.cityindex.co.uk/margin-and-leverage.asp...
Sorry not quite following this.......Margin and Leverage - You cannot open a £20 per point trade with 5 point stop loss for £100 as slippage may occur as detailed in walms explanation above. The stop is not guaranteed unless you pay for a guarantee.
No you are betting per point, not 0.01
Take a read of http://www.cityindex.co.uk/margin-and-leverage.asp...
On this example they gave........
For example: If you want to spread bet £10 per point on Vodafone, with a current share price of £2.40, the total value of your position will will be £10 x 240 = £2400. With a margin factor of 4% your margin requirement would be £2400 *4% = £96.
So the £96 is a charge you pay them ?
Not sure I understand what the term ..."margin" means.
So on the example above is the most you can lose £2400 plus any slippage.
And the gain £10 a point so if FTSE rises 10 points you win £10 x 10 =£100
I think I'm missing something here.
EDITED TO SAY....just seen Walm"s post,.
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 11th August 15:40
I'm back,so to allow me to try and get my head around this subject with an example....
From what I can see the ratio of the profit that one can gain is very much less than one can lose and although a stop loss can be put in place it's really a "stop loss if I'm lucky ".
1) So if I bet on the FTSE movement and place £10 a point what do I get back if it gains 10 points.
2) And if it loses 10 points what is my actual loss ,assuming that I put on a 10 point stop loss ( that actually stops the loss at minus 10 points .
3) Is my suggesting a 10 point stop loss a sensible strategy ,if not, what is ?
4) You are saying that a stop loss is not guaranteed to do that, why ?
5) In that case is my loss unquantifiable ? ( If so....I'm outa here )
6) Am I asking the right questions ?
From what I can see the ratio of the profit that one can gain is very much less than one can lose and although a stop loss can be put in place it's really a "stop loss if I'm lucky ".
1) So if I bet on the FTSE movement and place £10 a point what do I get back if it gains 10 points.
2) And if it loses 10 points what is my actual loss ,assuming that I put on a 10 point stop loss ( that actually stops the loss at minus 10 points .
3) Is my suggesting a 10 point stop loss a sensible strategy ,if not, what is ?
4) You are saying that a stop loss is not guaranteed to do that, why ?
5) In that case is my loss unquantifiable ? ( If so....I'm outa here )
6) Am I asking the right questions ?
jonamv8 said:
avinalarf said:
I'm back,so to allow me to try and get my head around this subject with an example....
From what I can see the ratio of the profit that one can gain is very much less than one can lose and although a stop loss can be put in place it's really a "stop loss if I'm lucky ".
1) So if I bet on the FTSE movement and place £10 a point what do I get back if it gains 10 points.
2) And if it loses 10 points what is my actual loss ,assuming that I put on a 10 point stop loss ( that actually stops the loss at minus 10 points .
3) Is my suggesting a 10 point stop loss a sensible strategy ,if not, what is ?
4) You are saying that a stop loss is not guaranteed to do that, why ?
5) In that case is my loss unquantifiable ? ( If so....I'm outa here )
6) Am I asking the right questions ?
1. £10 minus the spread, normally 1 point on ftse so £9From what I can see the ratio of the profit that one can gain is very much less than one can lose and although a stop loss can be put in place it's really a "stop loss if I'm lucky ".
1) So if I bet on the FTSE movement and place £10 a point what do I get back if it gains 10 points.
2) And if it loses 10 points what is my actual loss ,assuming that I put on a 10 point stop loss ( that actually stops the loss at minus 10 points .
3) Is my suggesting a 10 point stop loss a sensible strategy ,if not, what is ?
4) You are saying that a stop loss is not guaranteed to do that, why ?
5) In that case is my loss unquantifiable ? ( If so....I'm outa here )
6) Am I asking the right questions ?
2. £10
3. 10 point stop better than nothing. Probably too small on a volatile stock, indice or commodity tho. Stop losses can be debated all day
4. If market tanks or jumps hugely you may get smippage on your stop loss. Doesnt nornally concern me too much and i wouldnt pay extra to guarentee mine each time, under special circumstances maybe
5. You may get 10/15% slippage on very rare occasions I've not experienced higher.
6. Yeah everyone got to start sonewhere.
I suggest a demo account to learn the basic then quickly move to real money as it adds emotions into it but just keep stakes to minimum until you are consistently winning
You have all been so very generous in your advise ,thank you.
To let you know how I'm going to proceed with trading generally.
I've got a few days off in September so I'll take a couple of relevant books on trading with me to further my education.
Any suggestions ?
Trading for Dummies....springs to mind.
I am far from convinced that day trading suits my tempremant,and Walm's and sidicks comments both resonate with my feelings on the subject ,no disrespect for those of you that do day trade.
This morning at 07.30 I placed a "kill or fill " order on for shares on a company I fancy.
It was not fulfilled ,fortunately,as the share as gone down,but I was going to hold it long term so I'll see how it goes.
To let you know how I'm going to proceed with trading generally.
I've got a few days off in September so I'll take a couple of relevant books on trading with me to further my education.
Any suggestions ?
Trading for Dummies....springs to mind.
I am far from convinced that day trading suits my tempremant,and Walm's and sidicks comments both resonate with my feelings on the subject ,no disrespect for those of you that do day trade.
This morning at 07.30 I placed a "kill or fill " order on for shares on a company I fancy.
It was not fulfilled ,fortunately,as the share as gone down,but I was going to hold it long term so I'll see how it goes.
R11ysf said:
contango said:
why you would want to buy in mid August is beyond me, the buyers now are those with a "need" to buy in a thin market.
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!But they say you can't time the market.
I would surmise that selling in a thin market is more problematic ?
walm said:
avinalarf said:
walm said:
Jesus - how big was the order!?
I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
Buy price was 224.5 .I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
I put in a KorF price of 224 for a fair chunk.
I was going to hold this share,subject to how it was performing.
Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
walm said:
avinalarf said:
Only down slightly.
Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
Ah - well I am fairly familiar with our South African friends, as it happens, and Elliott.Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
The drop on the revised bid is a little puzzling I have to agree.
I wonder whether it was purely technical as there will have been a bunch of event guys in there on Elliott's coat-tails hoping for a knock-out offer.
Clearly that didn't arrive so they may simply have had to adjust their timelines for a return dramatically (from a few weeks to a long drawn out, possibly through the courts, squeeze out process).
That delay kills the IRR on their positions so they simply sell out, causing selling pressure and a temporary drop in the stock, which is now recovering as you can see.
Not sure what possible long term hope you have here or indeed how your experience in the industry might help.
This is now a battle of wills between two big investors (the acquirer and Elliott).
The risk/reward on these always scares me.
If Elliott push too hard they could derail the whole thing.
I think that wholly unlikely but even if the bid is revised up another 5p in total, it's not a huge return considering where it might drop to if the deal fails.
Just my 2p!
They are Brand leader in their segment of the retail market.
I'm a bit concerned how the declining £ against the $ will affect them,maybe ok for now if they've hedged but problematic for 2017.
Their margins will be compromised.
In retailing their is no middle ground,it's been like that for several years.
That's one reason that M&S are finding it so tough in clothing,that and trying to be all things to all people. They have a tough time on their hands to get their clothing offer right.
If you're a large group with hundreds of stores you have to have a strong brand and be very on the ball,with attractive price points,that is price points focussed on your core customer profile,hence the success of Zara.
So if you're a big player the mantra is ....position on the high street....focus on your customer....get your prices right.
Ozzie Osmond said:
R11ysf said:
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!
Ain't that the truth! I have been staggered how since 2008 it's been possible to accumulate so much value simply by "owning stuff". IMO governments and central banks (aided and abetted by banks) have completely destroyed the fundamental value of "money".
QE.
Foreigners looking for a safe haven ,some with potentially suspect cash.
Ordinary folk desperate to get a return on their savings, getting into the stock market and buy to let.
Etc.etc.
All pushing up prices in a toppy market.
Edited by avinalarf on Saturday 13th August 14:06
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