Alternative to BTL. I've had enough
Discussion
dazwalsh said:
Please dont take offense to this but the kitchen already looks 15-20 years old with those tiles and those pine worktops. Have you just shortcut the kitchen with new door fronts?
The location of the gas fire would annoy me also
But the biggest downfall is the lack of central heating, and the EPC is very low.
Im not a fan of upvc porches either.
Very nice bathroom though and the street looks fine, whats wrong with the area?
The kitchen doesn't look that bad to me, but lack of central heating, particularly with the strange situation of the fire is likely to be a bigger issue I would have thought.The location of the gas fire would annoy me also
But the biggest downfall is the lack of central heating, and the EPC is very low.
Im not a fan of upvc porches either.
Very nice bathroom though and the street looks fine, whats wrong with the area?
Prohibiting said:
Please can any expects enlighten me and tell me why I've had no offers and 15 viewings on my BTL property that I'm selling? Been on since 6th October and already reduced it once. But if you compare other similar properties online between £130-150k within a 1/2 mile radius mine looks a bargain and definitely has the best bathroom by a mile! Chain free as well! What the heck do people want? It's immaculate.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
This strange thing happens. It's like writers block. And of course the property had only been on the market a month when you posted. IF the agent's had 15 viewers in a month then there's 15 people who decided to have a look at the property and at the price and at the location. Would they have bothered if any of those things weren't what they were POTENTIALLY looking for? Would YOU go and look at a property that wasn't the right type of property or in the right place or being sold at the wrong price. No. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Edited by Prohibiting on Monday 7th November 11:03
Of course if location and property were ok then you might at least make an offer.But no-one has. And you say the agent's good, so they'll already have up to 15 ideas of why no offer and they will also no doubt have suggested to anyone showing serious interest that they TRY a lower offer. But that's not happened either.
Can't see 15 different people in a month going to a viewing in a location they don't fancy. And of course many go to have a butcher's before they go to the viewing. So that leaves the property itself. Well for a start they'll all have had a look at the pictures before they went. And for a second thing, quite a lot of people have ideas in mind for things like decor or kitchens or bathrooms so sometimes it can even be handy to have boring plain decor and basic but unexciting kitchens and bathrooms. They impose their dreams on the canvas you're offering. And there's really nothing much apparent in your house which would put anyone off moving into it or buying it to let.
So it's a strange one. It's really something you have to work with the agent on. Are others similar at the price point selling in the vicinity? And what really IS the feedback in detail from the 15 viewers. Now maybe 20? Apart from the driveway that is. And what is the recent average selling time of similar? And similar sort of questions.
Maybe a bit more patience is needed. Because you know you can sell it if you crash the price but you don't want to do that, so patience is really your only option.
This does happen sometimes. Houses that should sell just don't. I imagine it's the same in the car trade.
Taken only a second to look at it so may be way off, but look at this property which looks reallly really similar that is under offer: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
It screams first house for someone in their late 20s, working in Gloucester etc. Yours comes across more like a granny flat type place, sure the kitchen is a bit dated in style, but more than that is the staging. A set of modern clean furniture in that house will show people the lifestyle and get them to fall in love. Gloss white and back furniture couple of nice rugs and you will be sold within the month id bet, it's a great little place.
It screams first house for someone in their late 20s, working in Gloucester etc. Yours comes across more like a granny flat type place, sure the kitchen is a bit dated in style, but more than that is the staging. A set of modern clean furniture in that house will show people the lifestyle and get them to fall in love. Gloss white and back furniture couple of nice rugs and you will be sold within the month id bet, it's a great little place.
It's amazing the difference between the two. The first one looks like a dispassionate BTL ready to go and the second one looks like a warm, cosy home ready to go.
The post two above raises good points re location and the post above shows a clear example re dressing a home for the target buyer.
I wonder if the FTB market is where the action is where you are currently and the BTL buyers are much more price aggressive due to the tax changes?
I.e. Is you house dressed for a buyer type who isn't really in the market at the moment and those that are want a deal whereas the real buyers are a different group like FTBs who need it to look much more homely and even trendy and then they'll pay over the odds. Don't forget that the average FTB needs to buy a property already dressed up so that they can put that cost into the mortgage as they don't have the actual cash to do it themselves after buying.
Worth going to look at the similar properties on the market and also asking your EA what type of buyer he is seeing in the area at the moment?
The post two above raises good points re location and the post above shows a clear example re dressing a home for the target buyer.
I wonder if the FTB market is where the action is where you are currently and the BTL buyers are much more price aggressive due to the tax changes?
I.e. Is you house dressed for a buyer type who isn't really in the market at the moment and those that are want a deal whereas the real buyers are a different group like FTBs who need it to look much more homely and even trendy and then they'll pay over the odds. Don't forget that the average FTB needs to buy a property already dressed up so that they can put that cost into the mortgage as they don't have the actual cash to do it themselves after buying.
Worth going to look at the similar properties on the market and also asking your EA what type of buyer he is seeing in the area at the moment?
Thanks guys. The agents have just phoned me to discuss options. Their whole team are scratching their heads as to why mine hasn't sold yet. They are currently marketing four other 2-bed properties near to my location priced £140-149k and these aren't selling either (some with drive ways). The agents told me that the market has really slowed.
I'm still getting the viewings but no offers. Remember, this is my unfurnished BTL property. I don't have any spare furniture to stick in there or to transform it into a fully furnished home! Yes I agree mine lacks character but it's a perfect blank canvas for a FTB. Do FTB'ers lack total vision and inspiration these days? You shouldn't have to fully furnish a house in order to show what it 'could' look like.
As a result I really want to get this shifted now and we're going to put it on as 'offers in the region of £134k'.
Overall I'm extremely disappointed as I have put so much time, money and effort making it immaculate, I could have sold it back in may for £130k in a grotty state as I had an offer then.
On the other hand, maybe the 3-bed £170-190k houses are stalling which means I'll be able to get one of those cheaper so maybe it's all revelant?
I think I'd be better off buying a old Porsche outright than getting a mortgage on property!
I'm still getting the viewings but no offers. Remember, this is my unfurnished BTL property. I don't have any spare furniture to stick in there or to transform it into a fully furnished home! Yes I agree mine lacks character but it's a perfect blank canvas for a FTB. Do FTB'ers lack total vision and inspiration these days? You shouldn't have to fully furnish a house in order to show what it 'could' look like.
As a result I really want to get this shifted now and we're going to put it on as 'offers in the region of £134k'.
Overall I'm extremely disappointed as I have put so much time, money and effort making it immaculate, I could have sold it back in may for £130k in a grotty state as I had an offer then.
On the other hand, maybe the 3-bed £170-190k houses are stalling which means I'll be able to get one of those cheaper so maybe it's all revelant?
I think I'd be better off buying a old Porsche outright than getting a mortgage on property!
Edited by Prohibiting on Friday 11th November 17:28
Prohibiting said:
I doubt it. Only a couple of people have commented about the lack of central heating. A lot of these little 2 bed houses don't have central heating. It would cost about £2k to install and I doubt it would sell for an extra £3k to make it worthwhile doing.
On the whole I'm just pretty disappointed that it hasn't sold yet. I'm starting to get very twitchy considering I spent £5.5k making it immaculate.
A few agents said that a tidy 2-bed house priced correctly should fly off the market!
Bedrooms are too small, I wouldn't even view this house.On the whole I'm just pretty disappointed that it hasn't sold yet. I'm starting to get very twitchy considering I spent £5.5k making it immaculate.
A few agents said that a tidy 2-bed house priced correctly should fly off the market!
eta
Everything else is fine, kitchen is ok, green bin to be expected so not an issue.
As already said, it needs central heating. A first time buyer will run a mile after s
tting their pants thinking about what a plumber might do to get pipework and radiators in - far better to spend 2-3k getting a system put in then advertise it with a brand new boiler with XX years warranty - a huge selling point to first time buyers. You could lose that gas fire then...
Kitchen too - a few quid on end panels, corner fillets and plinths might better hide the fact that you've just changed the door fronts. Worth trying open days, anything to get people through it - you need accurate feedback from any viewers to see what's putting them off as from the pics it's clean, tidy, good bathroom, low maintenance garden etc, "suitcase-ready" - it must be the lack of heating.
tting their pants thinking about what a plumber might do to get pipework and radiators in - far better to spend 2-3k getting a system put in then advertise it with a brand new boiler with XX years warranty - a huge selling point to first time buyers. You could lose that gas fire then...Kitchen too - a few quid on end panels, corner fillets and plinths might better hide the fact that you've just changed the door fronts. Worth trying open days, anything to get people through it - you need accurate feedback from any viewers to see what's putting them off as from the pics it's clean, tidy, good bathroom, low maintenance garden etc, "suitcase-ready" - it must be the lack of heating.
Prohibiting said:
Please can any expects enlighten me and tell me why I've had no offers and 15 viewings on my BTL property that I'm selling? Been on since 6th October and already reduced it once. But if you compare other similar properties online between £130-150k within a 1/2 mile radius mine looks a bargain and definitely has the best bathroom by a mile! Chain free as well! What the heck do people want? It's immaculate.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Nothing to do with location/Price etc.http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Edited by Prohibiting on Monday 7th November 11:03
On paper "perfect 1st starter home", right?
As was the house I tried to sell this year.......but had no young people coming to view!
Majority of 1st time buyers are skipping the 2 up 2 down, and going for a min 3 bed........I ended up renting mine out in the end.
its always to do with price.
It will never sell at £1m but will set immediately for £1 Somewhere in the middle is the current market price.
Current market price is the key - as we approach xmas people don't want to move. its snows and you have no Gas CH so the limited amount of people that want to buy now will be wanting gas CH.
We let houses. about 350 a year. The letting market slows down as we approach xmas its dead from Mid December to early Jan. If we don't let a house now in the next week or 2 its going to be empty over Christmas. Some landlords will adjust the price some wont. Guess which are still not letting?
Its all to do with price and the current market. Adjust your price now to sell it now it may well sell next year at your asking price but it for sure hasn't now.
BTL are still letting fantastically well if you buy in the right area and price it correctly.
It will never sell at £1m but will set immediately for £1 Somewhere in the middle is the current market price.
Current market price is the key - as we approach xmas people don't want to move. its snows and you have no Gas CH so the limited amount of people that want to buy now will be wanting gas CH.
We let houses. about 350 a year. The letting market slows down as we approach xmas its dead from Mid December to early Jan. If we don't let a house now in the next week or 2 its going to be empty over Christmas. Some landlords will adjust the price some wont. Guess which are still not letting?
Its all to do with price and the current market. Adjust your price now to sell it now it may well sell next year at your asking price but it for sure hasn't now.
BTL are still letting fantastically well if you buy in the right area and price it correctly.
I've never done BTL, but I've never sold a house, we just let the old ones out when we move. However, an observation:
- the industry is geared up to churn tenants. Agents will get tenants out as often as possible, because they earn more money that way.
- my approach, once I've got some decent tenants in, is to make damn sure they say. I don't put the rent up every year, despite a load of hassle from the agent to do so.
- all our tenants have been in for several years, the longest has been in for 7 years. No hassle at all. No light bulb replacement, no drain unblocking, nada. The longest serving tenant had the boiler fail last year and phoned up rather apologetically to say the engineer he had called out couldn't fix it. So we replaced it. Other than that, nothing.
- the houses earn enough for us, they paid the mortgages when we had them, and it is just pure cash flow now. The tenant with the new boiler is probably 20 - 25% under market now and isn't planning on going anywhere.
- given the ease of management, I think we are winning financially as well as in the hassle stakes.
- the industry is geared up to churn tenants. Agents will get tenants out as often as possible, because they earn more money that way.
- my approach, once I've got some decent tenants in, is to make damn sure they say. I don't put the rent up every year, despite a load of hassle from the agent to do so.
- all our tenants have been in for several years, the longest has been in for 7 years. No hassle at all. No light bulb replacement, no drain unblocking, nada. The longest serving tenant had the boiler fail last year and phoned up rather apologetically to say the engineer he had called out couldn't fix it. So we replaced it. Other than that, nothing.
- the houses earn enough for us, they paid the mortgages when we had them, and it is just pure cash flow now. The tenant with the new boiler is probably 20 - 25% under market now and isn't planning on going anywhere.
- given the ease of management, I think we are winning financially as well as in the hassle stakes.
That's good to hear, but I imagine if you were to calculate your net cash yield on the current market value of your properties, you'd be somewhat surprised by how low it is. Which is to say that if you went to accumulate a similar portfolio today, it would offer pretty poor risk-adjusted returns.
rxe said:
I've never done BTL, but I've never sold a house, we just let the old ones out when we move. However, an observation:
- the industry is geared up to churn tenants. Agents will get tenants out as often as possible, because they earn more money that way.
- my approach, once I've got some decent tenants in, is to make damn sure they say. I don't put the rent up every year, despite a load of hassle from the agent to do so.
- all our tenants have been in for several years, the longest has been in for 7 years. No hassle at all. No light bulb replacement, no drain unblocking, nada. The longest serving tenant had the boiler fail last year and phoned up rather apologetically to say the engineer he had called out couldn't fix it. So we replaced it. Other than that, nothing.
- the houses earn enough for us, they paid the mortgages when we had them, and it is just pure cash flow now. The tenant with the new boiler is probably 20 - 25% under market now and isn't planning on going anywhere.
- given the ease of management, I think we are winning financially as well as in the hassle stakes.
There is a a lot to be said for treating decent people decently - being treated like you'd like to be treated yourself. It pays dividends over any short term grabby rent increase in my experience too. By a big country mile.- the industry is geared up to churn tenants. Agents will get tenants out as often as possible, because they earn more money that way.
- my approach, once I've got some decent tenants in, is to make damn sure they say. I don't put the rent up every year, despite a load of hassle from the agent to do so.
- all our tenants have been in for several years, the longest has been in for 7 years. No hassle at all. No light bulb replacement, no drain unblocking, nada. The longest serving tenant had the boiler fail last year and phoned up rather apologetically to say the engineer he had called out couldn't fix it. So we replaced it. Other than that, nothing.
- the houses earn enough for us, they paid the mortgages when we had them, and it is just pure cash flow now. The tenant with the new boiler is probably 20 - 25% under market now and isn't planning on going anywhere.
- given the ease of management, I think we are winning financially as well as in the hassle stakes.
Ken Figenus said:
There is a a lot to be said for treating decent people decently - being treated like you'd like to be treated yourself. It pays dividends over any short term grabby rent increase in my experience too. By a big country mile.
Hear hear. It means a lot, particularly to people who haven't got much, to be respected and decently treated by their landlord. They never forget it either.NickCQ said:
That's good to hear, but I imagine if you were to calculate your net cash yield on the current market value of your properties, you'd be somewhat surprised by how low it is. Which is to say that if you went to accumulate a similar portfolio today, it would offer pretty poor risk-adjusted returns.
I think if a load of landlords were to run the numbers there would be a flood of property to the market! But it's lifestyle, lack of thought - many calculate yield based on what they paid 20 years ago.A couple of people locally sitting on £2m houses (that they actually paid around £2m for) and are renting furnished for sub £50k per year... GROSS!
Some good news. I accepted an offer yesterday of £135,500 which is less than I originally hoped but given the current situation I jumped on it. They were selling for £140k back in May.... Seeing the solicitor this afternoon as I want this to progress as quickly as possible.
I'm still extremely twitchy. I have all my limbs crossed hoping the buyer doesn't pull out. She's a single lady, just sold her house to a FTB in the same area as mine due to personal reasons (divorce?) and wants to move straight into mine.
The worrying thing is that the larger end terrace just across the road from mine has been reduced from £140k to £135k today. She viewed this end terrace but said she preferred mine and the cheaper price. Please please don't pull out! I want to wash my hands, get my money, buy a classic car and wait to see what happens in April to house prices. They're just not selling!
I'm still extremely twitchy. I have all my limbs crossed hoping the buyer doesn't pull out. She's a single lady, just sold her house to a FTB in the same area as mine due to personal reasons (divorce?) and wants to move straight into mine.
The worrying thing is that the larger end terrace just across the road from mine has been reduced from £140k to £135k today. She viewed this end terrace but said she preferred mine and the cheaper price. Please please don't pull out! I want to wash my hands, get my money, buy a classic car and wait to see what happens in April to house prices. They're just not selling!
Edited by Prohibiting on Wednesday 23 November 10:54
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