Pensions - are everyone's losing money or just mine
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
red_slr said:
So don't be fooled into investing your money unless you are sure you know what you are doing. I sure wish I had thought about it when I was 18, because I would probably not have bothered. Over the last 19 years its pretty much made nothing.
Over that time period most people will have achieved an excellent return - doubled their money as a bare minimum.The big question is, "what have you been invested in?". The answer isn't "pension", that's just the wrapper. What's the underlying investment, what contributions were paid, and when?
Thankfully I have spread the risk a little and have other investments but like I said its not the magic ticket it once was. I used to work with guys who worked "normal" jobs, retired on huge pensions and paid in (in comparison) quite little. Those days are long gone.
The other elephant in the room is when will the govt change the goal posts again on pension age and LTA... its coming!
red_slr said:
Well all I can tell you is after 19 years, give or take a few grand its made nothing, nada, zip. Contributions are reasonable for someone on my level of income - into double digits % each year. I get the 20% tax on it - whoopty doo. Other than that pretty pointless. Every year my IFA tells me I need a pot that's about £10-£20k bigger than the previous year just to maintain projected income from it. I am really going to clamp down on fees this year and if I don't like what I see then I am orff.
Thankfully I have spread the risk a little and have other investments but like I said its not the magic ticket it once was. I used to work with guys who worked "normal" jobs, retired on huge pensions and paid in (in comparison) quite little. Those days are long gone.
The other elephant in the room is when will the govt change the goal posts again on pension age and LTA... its coming!
I'm sorry to hear that.Thankfully I have spread the risk a little and have other investments but like I said its not the magic ticket it once was. I used to work with guys who worked "normal" jobs, retired on huge pensions and paid in (in comparison) quite little. Those days are long gone.
The other elephant in the room is when will the govt change the goal posts again on pension age and LTA... its coming!
To provide a little balance, I started investing in 1993 and the value of my units has now increased by 5x, so it can be done. I just left them alone and watched them grow, I was very passive.
As I get older I get more interested in the whole thing, and now pay for an IFA on annual basis. I don't have to take his advise, but he's better at this stuff than I am.
12TS said:
To provide a little balance, I started investing in 1993 and the value of my units has now increased by 5x, so it can be done. I just left them alone and watched them grow, I was very passive.
^^ I'd say that's a far more typical experience, albeit you have more of the 1990s boom in there. red_slr - It looks as though there must be something wrong that's specific to your situation.
Ozzie Osmond said:
12TS said:
To provide a little balance, I started investing in 1993 and the value of my units has now increased by 5x, so it can be done. I just left them alone and watched them grow, I was very passive.
^^ I'd say that's a far more typical experience, albeit you have more of the 1990s boom in there. red_slr - It looks as though there must be something wrong that's specific to your situation.
sidicks said:
Behemoth said:
Houses don't change much. The financial landscape is always changing whilst your own asset/debt pile / circumstances are changing, too. All these variables can be very complex keep on top of for mere mortals with better things to do. Why not pay for expert advice when its needed? If you have the time & inclination to keep up with myriad variables & opportunities or if your financial circumstances are effortlessly simple, that's great. I have never understood why people don't think advice is often worth paying for.
I'm sure Julian will respond shortly, but I think that his point would be that while an annual review might make sense, this should be charged on a 'time' basis , rather than % of the fund.In my experience people choose to pay for advice FBRC as they simply don't want to pay cash up front!
I am already paying my investment manager a percentage of the value of my money each year and I accept this as it is an incentive to grow my money and not lose it!
However, my adviser is not managing my investments and therefore I see no reason to pay him in the same way as the company that is. I therefore pay him for his time.
I can understand that others may want to pay their adviser a percentage fee (particularly when there are smaller value funds involved) but I know of advisers taking 1% a year and over a 50 year investment cycle of growth and then income such advisers would have taken half of my money.
Advice just isn't about running money, it's defining individual needs. That's why I wondered if you had missed the point a little. Having insight into tax wrappers is not a substitute for knowing what's best for you. The investment manager won't know, or care.. it's not his remit anyway. Advice is unique application of the knowledge, not just having the knowledge itself.
Clearly, obtaining value for money is also important! Why pay, say, 1% to have an unadvised SIPP when you could have an advised one for c.0.8?
Clearly, obtaining value for money is also important! Why pay, say, 1% to have an unadvised SIPP when you could have an advised one for c.0.8?
red_slr said:
Trabi601 said:
lewisf182 said:
The fact is most people that age (my age) don't have 11-15% of salary to spare though... Yes you could argue we don't need a half decent car etc but Christ, what's the point in being alive if you can't enjoy what you work for a bit now - might never even reach retirement...
You have a 130i MSport, you can afford 15% to provide for your future.You're right that you have to live a bit - but living your final years in poverty as you blew it all on cars etc, when you were young will be utterly miserable - and you'll regret you didn't scale back your cars in your youth to be able to enjoy your final years.
Ozzie Osmond said:
12TS said:
To provide a little balance, I started investing in 1993 and the value of my units has now increased by 5x, so it can be done. I just left them alone and watched them grow, I was very passive.
^^ I'd say that's a far more typical experience, albeit you have more of the 1990s boom in there. red_slr - It looks as though there must be something wrong that's specific to your situation.
A friend of mine gained £30k last year on the same size pot I have. I lost £3k.
red_slr said:
TBH I desperately want to move IFA, but my wife refuses. Its not worth the hassle so I leave it alone.
A friend of mine gained £30k last year on the same size pot I have. I lost £3k.
There's something wrong. Identify it. Fix it.A friend of mine gained £30k last year on the same size pot I have. I lost £3k.
Note: Unless "last year" means exactly the same dates for both of you and a similar investment strategy it's not unusual to find significant variations. If you haven't made significant progress between April and September this year there must be real questions to ask, because everything is up. The only thing I can think of is that you might be stuck in a "cash" fund, but that wouldn't seem to tie up with what you said earlier - although you didn't answer the specific question "what are the underlying funds?". It's likely there are people on here who could make useful comment if you were to identify the fund(s) by name - there's no need to mention the value.
lewisf182 said:
Scale back my cars, the 130i is only worth £5k it's hardly extravagant... and the main issue is people my age are more than likely going to have to work till we're 70 plus now. That is a reality and one that I'm fully aware of. Pensions just aren't on the minds of people my age as generally we live month to month (And before you say it, No, I don't live an extravagent life, my laptop is 7 years old, my car is 11 years old etc..). I'm planning for my future in other ways at the moment (property) as I just struggle to see the point in paying in to something that I'm not going to be able to draw down on for around 40 years in most likelihood, I can make my money work harder myself now and enjoy it sooner.
If you have a pension scheme at work, then you're mad if you're not paying in at least what's needed to get the maximum contribution out of your employer. That's free money and every £ you put in, it put in at gross, not net, salary. There's a minimum of 20% return on your own money straight away!Property is fine, once you've sorted out your own place to live - and it's not the magic answer, either.
(As for the 'only £5k' - before I got company cars, I had never spent £5k on a car of my own, and I'd only spent over a grand a couple of times! - so it looks relatively extravagant to me, for someone who is putting their head in the sand when it comes to pension planning)
Ozzie Osmond said:
red_slr said:
TBH I desperately want to move IFA, but my wife refuses. Its not worth the hassle so I leave it alone.
A friend of mine gained £30k last year on the same size pot I have. I lost £3k.
There's something wrong. Identify it. Fix it.A friend of mine gained £30k last year on the same size pot I have. I lost £3k.
Note: Unless "last year" means exactly the same dates for both of you and a similar investment strategy it's not unusual to find significant variations. If you haven't made significant progress between April and September this year there must be real questions to ask, because everything is up. The only thing I can think of is that you might be stuck in a "cash" fund, but that wouldn't seem to tie up with what you said earlier - although you didn't answer the specific question "what are the underlying funds?". It's likely there are people on here who could make useful comment if you were to identify the fund(s) by name - there's no need to mention the value.
I'd have to dig out the figures for my own SIPP with Fidelity but the figure gets bigger and bigger each year, and it's just the fund where I consolidated pensions from previous employers so it's not new money that's making it bigger - and I've just got pretty standard equity trackers. Over the last two years, the FTSE All-Share has returned about 10%, bonds have gone up massively, overseas investments have benefited in GBP terms from the weaker exchange rate.
red_slr said:
TBH I desperately want to move IFA, but my wife refuses.
Show her the numbers then ask her why. Is she just an uncertain 'rabbit in the headlights' or does the IFA look like Rudolph Valentino?If you are unhappy with the way your finances are being run/not run it will spoil the rest of your life too and give you sleepless nights - as I discovered last year. In your case it seems you have nothing to lose and everything to gain so start kicking some butt.
red_slr said:
The other elephant in the room is when will the govt change the goal posts again on pension age and LTA... its coming!
Oh yes.
JulianPH said:
If you are getting a 15% pension contribution from your employer you are laughing. If you have been getting this since you started working and making the same contribution you are on your way to a 2/3rds final salary equivalent.
The simple fact in life is that if you don't save 1/3rd throughout your working life you will never be able to get 2/3rds in retirement. With a 15% employer contribution and your savings to date it looks like you are on your way... Bloody well done!
I am not laughing so much now! The pension scheme that pays the 15% sent me their statement today - they have lost 8% of my fund as well! The simple fact in life is that if you don't save 1/3rd throughout your working life you will never be able to get 2/3rds in retirement. With a 15% employer contribution and your savings to date it looks like you are on your way... Bloody well done!
Is there any way I can move out of my current employers scheme without losing the contribution?
kingston12 said:
I am not laughing so much now! The pension scheme that pays the 15% sent me their statement today - they have lost 8% of my fund as well!
Is there any way I can move out of my current employers scheme without losing the contribution?
Who chooses the investment strategy for the fund?Is there any way I can move out of my current employers scheme without losing the contribution?
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