HMRC Self Assessment Penalty - PAYE employee
Discussion
Evening, I hope I can ask some advise with regards to a letter I received today from HMRC, I have phoned them twice today so think I know what to do but just want to make sure that advice is correct as the second advice from HMRC was different to the first.
So I have been a PAYE employee for as long as I can remember. In October 2014 I left the MOD and started employment the next day with a new company. I was initially charged emergency tax which was made clear to me by HR as the MOD had not provided me with a P45 at that stage. I've since left them in May 2015 and again started the next working day with my current employer.
So today I received a letter from HMRC saying I'm fined £100 for not submitting a tax return for 14/15?? Obviously I immediately called HMRC and was told it was because I underpaid tax to the value of £160 and they had sent multiple letters (to which I have seen none) I explained that I'm a PAYE employee so do not fill out assessments and surely the error is with them by not amending my tax code to cover the shortfall? I also questioned the fact I actually took a £10k pay cut on leaving the MOD and was paying emergency tax so in my eyes they're more likely to owe me money?
So I am now sat here filling out a self assessment (the girls on the phone said I need to) but they also said I should contest the fine by writing a letter and not paying it. During this they said I need my P60's and I mentioned I didn't have one of them to hand and she gave me all the numbers, money earned and tax paid so I really can't see how they can't do the sums themselves?
So I'm after a bit of help compiling a suitable letter as I'm guessing it's my word against there's that I didn't receive letters.
I should also add I did register to check my tax online 2 weeks ago that was wrong (showing I was going to earn double what I actually was, the guy on the phone fixed the issue and sent a letter to confirm that and at no point was it stated I was owing them money)
Thanks in advance.
So I have been a PAYE employee for as long as I can remember. In October 2014 I left the MOD and started employment the next day with a new company. I was initially charged emergency tax which was made clear to me by HR as the MOD had not provided me with a P45 at that stage. I've since left them in May 2015 and again started the next working day with my current employer.
So today I received a letter from HMRC saying I'm fined £100 for not submitting a tax return for 14/15?? Obviously I immediately called HMRC and was told it was because I underpaid tax to the value of £160 and they had sent multiple letters (to which I have seen none) I explained that I'm a PAYE employee so do not fill out assessments and surely the error is with them by not amending my tax code to cover the shortfall? I also questioned the fact I actually took a £10k pay cut on leaving the MOD and was paying emergency tax so in my eyes they're more likely to owe me money?
So I am now sat here filling out a self assessment (the girls on the phone said I need to) but they also said I should contest the fine by writing a letter and not paying it. During this they said I need my P60's and I mentioned I didn't have one of them to hand and she gave me all the numbers, money earned and tax paid so I really can't see how they can't do the sums themselves?
So I'm after a bit of help compiling a suitable letter as I'm guessing it's my word against there's that I didn't receive letters.
I should also add I did register to check my tax online 2 weeks ago that was wrong (showing I was going to earn double what I actually was, the guy on the phone fixed the issue and sent a letter to confirm that and at no point was it stated I was owing them money)
Thanks in advance.
HMRC must have issued you, at some point in the past, with a formal notification to submit a Self Assessment tax return for tax year 2014/15. That would have been sent to you sometime after 6 April 2015. Do you recall getting that?
Did you check with HMRC if they actually issued this formal notice.
Many people who's main income is taxed under PAYE are still required to complete Self Assessment tax returns - and often they are more complex than simple "self employed" folks' returns.
Did you check with HMRC if they actually issued this formal notice.
Many people who's main income is taxed under PAYE are still required to complete Self Assessment tax returns - and often they are more complex than simple "self employed" folks' returns.
Eric Mc said:
HMRC must have issued you, at some point in the past, with a formal notification to submit a Self Assessment tax return for tax year 2014/15. That would have been sent to you sometime after 6 April 2015. Do you recall getting that?
Did you check with HMRC if they actually issued this formal notice.
Many people who's main income is taxed under PAYE are still required to complete Self Assessment tax returns - and often they are more complex than simple "self employed" folks' returns.
I don't recall any correspondence except for today's letter and the one last week. I'm going to check with them what address they were using as I had a house share whilst working for one of the airlines so if it went there I certainly would have never seen it as I had moved back to my home address by that point. Did you check with HMRC if they actually issued this formal notice.
Many people who's main income is taxed under PAYE are still required to complete Self Assessment tax returns - and often they are more complex than simple "self employed" folks' returns.
For me I'm guessing the form is quite simple as I just have the 2 salaries from the P60 to input with no additional incomes.
Just had the same for my GF
Had a letter with a fine through the door today at her parents house, like the OP she's PAYE and this is the first letter that they've sent (and to her parents address at that)
I've just tried registering for self assessment online to do it for her but can't see it there - understand it may take a week before I can fill the form in for her?
Have also filled out the form that came with the letter/fine appealing it basically saying this is the first letter received to any address (driving license etc is all at our place) and what is it all about etc.
Had a letter with a fine through the door today at her parents house, like the OP she's PAYE and this is the first letter that they've sent (and to her parents address at that)
I've just tried registering for self assessment online to do it for her but can't see it there - understand it may take a week before I can fill the form in for her?
Have also filled out the form that came with the letter/fine appealing it basically saying this is the first letter received to any address (driving license etc is all at our place) and what is it all about etc.
Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 18th January 22:05
kiethton said:
Just had the same for my GF
Had a letter with a fine through the door today at her parents house, like the OP she's PAYE and this is the first letter that they've sent (and to her parents address at that)
I've just tried registering for self assessment online to do it for her but can't see it there - understand it may take a week before I can fill the form in for her?
Have also filled out the form that came with the letter/fine appealing it basically saying this is the first letter received to any address (driving license etc is all at our place) and what is it all about etc.
It's probably worth the 20/30 minutes it will take to call them - if she was solely PAYE (with no untaxed benefits or any other untaxed income) there is no legal requirement to complete an SA return and they do now have the power to cancel the "Notice to File" which means the penalty will vanish as a result.Had a letter with a fine through the door today at her parents house, like the OP she's PAYE and this is the first letter that they've sent (and to her parents address at that)
I've just tried registering for self assessment online to do it for her but can't see it there - understand it may take a week before I can fill the form in for her?
Have also filled out the form that came with the letter/fine appealing it basically saying this is the first letter received to any address (driving license etc is all at our place) and what is it all about etc.
Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 18th January 22:05
David
I had a similar situation.
It was impossible to write to them or call them, even though they would write to you.
I was NOT required to fill it by law, but they somehow assumed I must since I did it in the past.
Only filling it online - just for the sake putting the complaint in the comments box(!)
They are clueless idiots, or should we say the system is.
Welcome to little Britain real. I much preferred the original series though...
It was impossible to write to them or call them, even though they would write to you.
I was NOT required to fill it by law, but they somehow assumed I must since I did it in the past.
Only filling it online - just for the sake putting the complaint in the comments box(!)
They are clueless idiots, or should we say the system is.
Welcome to little Britain real. I much preferred the original series though...
I had similar from HMRC a couple of years ago. A letter out of the blue saying I owed £1800.
Been PAYE for the past 7 years and received no correspondence before the demand. At this time of year it can take an hour just to get through to someone. In the end they agreed that I wasn't subject to SA at all and removed the debt. Cheeky mofo's took about 80 mins to get to that decision even though I knew I was in the right.
Persevere and they'll get it sorted out for you.
Been PAYE for the past 7 years and received no correspondence before the demand. At this time of year it can take an hour just to get through to someone. In the end they agreed that I wasn't subject to SA at all and removed the debt. Cheeky mofo's took about 80 mins to get to that decision even though I knew I was in the right.
Persevere and they'll get it sorted out for you.
Very similar situation to you also. I have moved house quite a few times in the past few years and didn't always notify HMRC so they may have been sending correspondance to an old address.Anyway go online to update my records a few months back and within a few days get penalty notices rolling through.Finally totalling nearly £3000. After nearly having a heart attack and not wishing to have all the hassle of fighting with HMRC I went to an accountant in my village. Accountants have directline access to the HMRC and started arguing my case.Was rejected at first and we appealed again. After a few months of letters and calls back and forth I finally got a letter to say all penalties were being dropped.
.Long story short, get an accountant to fight it for you.Dealing with HMRC persoanlly will make you lose the will to live.
.Long story short, get an accountant to fight it for you.Dealing with HMRC persoanlly will make you lose the will to live.Edited by Rider007 on Thursday 26th January 13:49
ecsrobin said:
...they said I need my P60s and I mentioned I didn't have one of them to hand and she gave me all the numbers, money earned and tax paid, so I really can't see how they can't do the sums themselves?...
Having spent several days at the beginning of January searching for, and finally finding, the P45 from my redundancy/slightly early retirement at the end of February last year, I was both impressed and rather annoyed to find that the Self Assessment web site now fills in the P60/P45/P11D numbers, and I needn't have bothered looking for it. Well this saga is still ongoing
After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
Rider007 said:
Dealing with HMRC persoanlly will make you lose the will to live.
Dealing with them by phone is the most horrific of experiences. Only people I have dealt with were rude & aggressive. By contrast when I have written to them I've always found them fair, reasonable & professional.kiethton said:
Well this saga is still ongoing
After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
Believe me its worth the wait. Once you can do everything online and get immediate feed back that its all completed it is worth it. I too am PAYE but taking control of your own tax via SA means you dont play the lottery of getting a letter saying you owe them money, wrong tax code etc. P60 from work, SA done as soon as their website allows. After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
oldaudi said:
kiethton said:
Well this saga is still ongoing
After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
Believe me its worth the wait. Once you can do everything online and get immediate feed back that its all completed it is worth it. I too am PAYE but taking control of your own tax via SA means you dont play the lottery of getting a letter saying you owe them money, wrong tax code etc. P60 from work, SA done as soon as their website allows. After calling them at the time of the update we had registered her to do the SA but were waiting on a code to be posted to allow her to fill it in...it was meant to arrive in a day or 2
Needless to say we are still waiting so called again on Monday - apparently another code has been requested but still no sign of the thing, to either our new)ish) address or her parents (previous address). #bangshead
So we finally get an authorisation code after anther 3 calls and a lot of chasing!
Go on the system to complete the outstanding return (13/14) and after being told that it'll be pre-populated it's not. She has no P60's, P45's or anything and no means of getting replacements for 2 of the 3 jobs.
How do others resolve this? HMRC have said the amount underpaid over the phone, can she just pay this, we've got no way of either proving it or disproving it.
Go on the system to complete the outstanding return (13/14) and after being told that it'll be pre-populated it's not. She has no P60's, P45's or anything and no means of getting replacements for 2 of the 3 jobs.
How do others resolve this? HMRC have said the amount underpaid over the phone, can she just pay this, we've got no way of either proving it or disproving it.
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