Discussion
I decided a few years ago to contribute to buying a flat for each of my three daughters.
Not only to lessen the impact of IHT ,but more importantly ,to me,to have the enjoyment and peace of mind of seeing them "settled" whilst I was still alive.
I add that all three have always been industrious after leaving Uni,don't want you to think they are shirkers..
Other than that invested in my business,shares,pension and cash,nothing too exotic.
Not only to lessen the impact of IHT ,but more importantly ,to me,to have the enjoyment and peace of mind of seeing them "settled" whilst I was still alive.
I add that all three have always been industrious after leaving Uni,don't want you to think they are shirkers..
Other than that invested in my business,shares,pension and cash,nothing too exotic.
NickCQ said:
Share the frustration but unless you can get creative with PECs or shareholder loans I suppose you are just saving the time value, as Ozzie says. Unless there's something to be done with pension contributions (you may well be at your contribution limit already though).
What's a PEC?I'm in a similar position, cash in the business doing nothing. We have been using shareholder loans to put off the tax payments to allow us to pay down our home mortgage quickly and will repay via dividends slowly to minimise future tax once the house is paid off (end of this year).
Im about to delve into maximising pension contributions and back paying three years as a way to access the cash in the business efficiently. My partner (life, not business) holds half the shares so we can double up on pension payments.
The sticking point (with regards to back paying) is that we don't have a current pension scheme and my understanding is that you can only pay unused annual allowance for years where a scheme was in place. Is that it, black and white, I don't have a scheme in place so can't back pay or are there any caveats that allow a work round?
Lots of investigation is needed though as I don't have a lot of faith in pensions. The current 25% tax free opportunity would be a bonus but I doubt it will be an option when I get to 55 (just turned 42) so I'm only expecting to enjoy the corp tax and income tax savings.
The other option is for the business to buy a building, it rents at the moment. Or diversify into buying property for the housing rental market but I really, really don't want to deal with tenants or the agro and baggage they bring.
I'm all ears for any other ideas or suggestions.
BTW ,whilst we are rightly concerning ourselves with maximising the return and keeping a hold on our hard earned savings.
Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
foxsasha said:
I'm in a similar position, cash in the business doing nothing. We have been using shareholder loans to put off the tax payments to allow us to pay down our home mortgage quickly and will repay via dividends slowly to minimise future tax once the house is paid off (end of this year).
Im about to delve into maximising pension contributions and back paying three years as a way to access the cash in the business efficiently. My partner (life, not business) holds half the shares so we can double up on pension payments.
I'm in the same boat and these options are what my accountant came up with.Im about to delve into maximising pension contributions and back paying three years as a way to access the cash in the business efficiently. My partner (life, not business) holds half the shares so we can double up on pension payments.
Vixpy1 said:
Commercial property, make the money work for you
My father in law does this quite a bit (although he builds his own rather than buys, his company is in commercial construction) and it's something that I approached my accountant about but he went into a long explanation on why it wasn't a particularly good idea in my situation. I must admit I do "phase out" a bit when he starts getting into the complexities of the tax system so I can't give you the reasoning behind it!
NickCQ said:
Share the frustration but unless you can get creative with PECs or shareholder loans I suppose you are just saving the time value, as Ozzie says. Unless there's something to be done with pension contributions (you may well be at your contribution limit already though).
Can't do anything more with pensions for anyone in the family. Never heard of PECs. Will try and educate myself. avinalarf said:
I decided a few years ago to contribute to buying a flat for each of my three daughters.
Not only to lessen the impact of IHT ,but more importantly ,to me,to have the enjoyment and peace of mind of seeing them "settled" whilst I was still alive.
I add that all three have always been industrious after leaving Uni,don't want you to think they are shirkers..
Other than that invested in my business,shares,pension and cash,nothing too exotic.
Yup. Mine have a crappy Zone 4 flat each. 5 mins from tube. ISAs and pensions done each year. Not only to lessen the impact of IHT ,but more importantly ,to me,to have the enjoyment and peace of mind of seeing them "settled" whilst I was still alive.
I add that all three have always been industrious after leaving Uni,don't want you to think they are shirkers..
Other than that invested in my business,shares,pension and cash,nothing too exotic.
NickCQ said:
DonkeyApple said:
Yes. I absolutely refuse to pay any more higher rate tax.
How tied to the UK are you? Have you considered Guernsey or any of the other usual suspects?avinalarf said:
BTW ,whilst we are rightly concerning ourselves with maximising the return and keeping a hold on our hard earned savings.
Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
Unfortunately what's important is out of that 16m hoe many are genuine and how many are self imposed paupers due to haemorrhaging cash living the dream. I walk around the Coty these days and all the younger blokes are living like girls. Shopping in Boots, drinking cocktails, eating in restaurants and generally prancing about like vagazzled ponces too busy living the dream to realise the only people who can live like that are the ones who know how to and are willing to work a rich man's chap. Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
NickCQ said:
Preferred Equity Certificate. We use it in PE to get profits into Lux.
Thankyou, am researching now.DonkeyApple said:
avinalarf said:
BTW ,whilst we are rightly concerning ourselves with maximising the return and keeping a hold on our hard earned savings.
Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
Unfortunately what's important is out of that 16m hoe many are genuine and how many are self imposed paupers due to haemorrhaging cash living the dream. I walk around the Coty these days and all the younger blokes are living like girls. Shopping in Boots, drinking cocktails, eating in restaurants and generally prancing about like vagazzled ponces too busy living the dream to realise the only people who can live like that are the ones who know how to and are willing to work a rich man's chap. Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. Mine have a crappy Zone 4 flat each. 5 mins from tube. ISAs and pensions done each year.
So why on earth are you fretting about IHT? I think you're crazy. And no, I wouldn't move out to a tax haven just to save tax either. Pay the tax and enjoy some more spending, or give it to the kids now, anything's better than just looking at it.
I suspect Zenos are still crowd-funding their new E11 model - so there you go! You're more likely to see a new Zenos than a new TVR... 
Ozzie Osmond said:
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. Mine have a crappy Zone 4 flat each. 5 mins from tube. ISAs and pensions done each year.
So why on earth are you fretting about IHT? I think you're crazy. And no, I wouldn't move out to a tax haven just to save tax either. Pay the tax and enjoy some more spending, or give it to the kids now, anything's better than just looking at it. I suspect Zenos are still crowd-funding their new E11 model - so there you go! You're more likely to see a new Zenos than a new TVR... DonkeyApple said:
It's not that I'm fretting about it it's more that it strikes me as more logical that they have any money rather than the State. And if I take the cash out then half of it goes in tax and I'm still left with needing to convert it away from cash.
What are the kids going to do with this company anyway? Do they have any genuine real-world interest in it?The last bloke I saw in your sort of situation wouldn't sell his shares for tax reasons so exported himself to the Channel Islands to save tax. Then woke up one morning to find the value of his shareholding had dropped nearly 50%. Fact is he'd have been better off to sell his shares, pay the tax and diversify.
Or set yourself up "the DA Charitable Foundation". Avoid the tax and do something useful.
Ozzie Osmond said:
DonkeyApple said:
It's not that I'm fretting about it it's more that it strikes me as more logical that they have any money rather than the State. And if I take the cash out then half of it goes in tax and I'm still left with needing to convert it away from cash.
What are the kids going to do with this company anyway? Do they have any genuine real-world interest in it?The last bloke I saw in your sort of situation wouldn't sell his shares for tax reasons so exported himself to the Channel Islands to save tax. Then woke up one morning to find the value of his shareholding had dropped nearly 50%. Fact is he'd have been better off to sell his shares, pay the tax and diversify.
Or set yourself up "the DA Charitable Foundation". Avoid the tax and do something useful.
The company would just be an investment vehicle by then. I don't really see my industry being viable or what it is now in ten years time and if certainly rather be doing something else by then. Being a lazy, old estate agent in the countryside strikes me as a mellow way to pass the time.
I've always fancied a proper excuse to buy some red corduroys. 
If it were me Id open a corporate investment account. Stocks and Shares.
The more assets the company has the better, because if and/or when you sell it you can take advantage of the 10% entrepreneurs relief.
Taking money out to pay half in tax as outlined above is just pointless.
Sure you can pension/SIPP some out, but you just defer the tax.
The more assets the company has the better, because if and/or when you sell it you can take advantage of the 10% entrepreneurs relief.
Taking money out to pay half in tax as outlined above is just pointless.
Sure you can pension/SIPP some out, but you just defer the tax.
foxsasha said:
NickCQ said:
Preferred Equity Certificate. We use it in PE to get profits into Lux.
Thankyou, am researching now.DonkeyApple said:
avinalarf said:
BTW ,whilst we are rightly concerning ourselves with maximising the return and keeping a hold on our hard earned savings.
Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
Unfortunately what's important is out of that 16m hoe many are genuine and how many are self imposed paupers due to haemorrhaging cash living the dream. I walk around the Coty these days and all the younger blokes are living like girls. Shopping in Boots, drinking cocktails, eating in restaurants and generally prancing about like vagazzled ponces too busy living the dream to realise the only people who can live like that are the ones who know how to and are willing to work a rich man's chap. Apparently 16 million of our fellow Britons have less than £100 in savings.
What's that all about ?
Can that really be true ?
Very sad ,and no good for any of us,let alone them.
However I strongly disapprove of the signals "society" .....the media,celebrity cult,and banks (if not now,then over the past thirty years),encourage the very false impression that....."you can have it all....now ".
I grew up in a society that taught hard work and prudence was the only way to gain any form of security in life.
Another problem is that recently the reasonable dreams and aspirations of youngsters seem almost impossible to achieve ,certainly in London.
This was not so for my generation.
Sure it wasn't easy, but it was achievable and one could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 30th September 15:45
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