Retirement funded by BTL - Reality after 1 year.
Discussion
trowelhead said:
He is talking about the US and specifically mentions 30 year mortgages 5 or more times in a 1 minute interview. I.e. he is talking about a low interest loan as a Dollar shorting strategy and a good interest rate hedge by which if rates go down you refinance lower and if they go up you have borrowed below market rates for an extended time which in itself is an inflation hedge. 
We do not have those products and 30 year mortgages are not a viable option here.
The OP reminds me of the Rambolambo guy, anyone who posts in the car forums looking for advice on a new car gets Rambo banging on about McLaren's and carbon tubs ad nauseam.
Seems to me that the OP has a formula which works for him but it's clearly not right for many others, if he'd have pointed that out it might have saved 15 pages of dissection.
I have a portfolio of commercial and residential property in the South East yields are double digit on the commercial and 6-7% on resi, more importantly for me is significant capital growth since purchase.
A friend has student lets in Leeds, they work for him. A colleague has HMO's - loves collecting cash every week so he's happy. Buying £20K Flats and letting them to DSS tenants would not be my choice but good luck if it's yours.
Obvious point I'm making is that there are many ways to make a good living from property, there are too many variables to say that what works for one is right for all.
Seems to me that the OP has a formula which works for him but it's clearly not right for many others, if he'd have pointed that out it might have saved 15 pages of dissection.
I have a portfolio of commercial and residential property in the South East yields are double digit on the commercial and 6-7% on resi, more importantly for me is significant capital growth since purchase.
A friend has student lets in Leeds, they work for him. A colleague has HMO's - loves collecting cash every week so he's happy. Buying £20K Flats and letting them to DSS tenants would not be my choice but good luck if it's yours.
Obvious point I'm making is that there are many ways to make a good living from property, there are too many variables to say that what works for one is right for all.
@drainbrain, given you have so many tenants on housing benefit what happens when they start pocketing the cash and then refuse to leave?
Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
BlackLabel said:
@drainbrain, given you have so many tenants on housing benefit what happens when they start pocketing the cash and then refuse to leave?
Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
In Groaks world eviction takes a lot less than that! 
Tresco said:
The OP reminds me of the Rambolambo guy, anyone who posts in the car forums looking for advice on a new car gets Rambo banging on about McLaren's and carbon tubs ad nauseam.
Seems to me that the OP has a formula which works for him but it's clearly not right for many others, if he'd have pointed that out it might have saved 15 pages of dissection.
I have a portfolio of commercial and residential property in the South East yields are double digit on the commercial and 6-7% on resi, more importantly for me is significant capital growth since purchase.
A friend has student lets in Leeds, they work for him. A colleague has HMO's - loves collecting cash every week so he's happy. Buying £20K Flats and letting them to DSS tenants would not be my choice but good luck if it's yours.
Obvious point I'm making is that there are many ways to make a good living from property, there are too many variables to say that what works for one is right for all.
Hi Tresco: Here's a quote from the 4th post up from the bottom of page 8 of this thread.Seems to me that the OP has a formula which works for him but it's clearly not right for many others, if he'd have pointed that out it might have saved 15 pages of dissection.
I have a portfolio of commercial and residential property in the South East yields are double digit on the commercial and 6-7% on resi, more importantly for me is significant capital growth since purchase.
A friend has student lets in Leeds, they work for him. A colleague has HMO's - loves collecting cash every week so he's happy. Buying £20K Flats and letting them to DSS tenants would not be my choice but good luck if it's yours.
Obvious point I'm making is that there are many ways to make a good living from property, there are too many variables to say that what works for one is right for all.
Quote: "Tony like me you are probably aware of how many different permutations of the property business can provide successful returns. And it is wholly pointless trying to prove that one of these is 'superior' to another. You have your expensive properties (not for me) and use rent guarantee cover (not in a million years thanks). And I have my multiple 'dungeons' and commercial stuff which cost less than you would believe possible and let using a lease called a 'nod and a handshake'. Yet down at HR Owen the proceeds from our albeit different business plans spends exactly the same. There isn't a right way and a wrong way there are just different ways".
How do you feel that quote sits alongside your post?
By the way, I prefer the cheap stuff because it makes a better return. But it doesn't mean it's the only property I buy. Nor do I mind buying something which increases in value, and often have, including buying BMV deliberately which in theory brings an instant (albeit unrealised) capital gain. PERSONALLY - not to be confused with some dogma (see quote above) I've always deliberately separated btl and bt sell. Including during debt-funded days using different types of loan.
The point of the thread is to explain how it is perfectly possible to fund retirement via a btl portfolio to the exclusion of any other diversification or investment. And, secondarily, it is dammed easy for anyone to do it.
drainbrain said:
Hi Tresco: Here's a quote from the 4th post up from the bottom of page 8 of this thread.
Quote: "Tony like me you are probably aware of how many different permutations of the property business can provide successful returns. And it is wholly pointless trying to prove that one of these is 'superior' to another. You have your expensive properties (not for me) and use rent guarantee cover (not in a million years thanks). And I have my multiple 'dungeons' and commercial stuff which cost less than you would believe possible and let using a lease called a 'nod and a handshake'. Yet down at HR Owen the proceeds from our albeit different business plans spends exactly the same. There isn't a right way and a wrong way there are just different ways".
How do you feel that quote sits alongside your post?
By the way, I prefer the cheap stuff because it makes a better return. But it doesn't mean it's the only property I buy. Nor do I mind buying something which increases in value, and often have, including buying BMV deliberately which in theory brings an instant (albeit unrealised) capital gain. PERSONALLY - not to be confused with some dogma (see quote above) I've always deliberately separated btl and bt sell. Including during debt-funded days using different types of loan.
The point of the thread is to explain how it is perfectly possible to fund retirement via a btl portfolio to the exclusion of any other diversification or investment. And, secondarily, it is dammed easy for anyone to do it.
And yet:Quote: "Tony like me you are probably aware of how many different permutations of the property business can provide successful returns. And it is wholly pointless trying to prove that one of these is 'superior' to another. You have your expensive properties (not for me) and use rent guarantee cover (not in a million years thanks). And I have my multiple 'dungeons' and commercial stuff which cost less than you would believe possible and let using a lease called a 'nod and a handshake'. Yet down at HR Owen the proceeds from our albeit different business plans spends exactly the same. There isn't a right way and a wrong way there are just different ways".
How do you feel that quote sits alongside your post?
By the way, I prefer the cheap stuff because it makes a better return. But it doesn't mean it's the only property I buy. Nor do I mind buying something which increases in value, and often have, including buying BMV deliberately which in theory brings an instant (albeit unrealised) capital gain. PERSONALLY - not to be confused with some dogma (see quote above) I've always deliberately separated btl and bt sell. Including during debt-funded days using different types of loan.
The point of the thread is to explain how it is perfectly possible to fund retirement via a btl portfolio to the exclusion of any other diversification or investment. And, secondarily, it is dammed easy for anyone to do it.
1. You've only done it for one year - hardly conclusive
2. You haven't explained how to obtain funds to acquire properties in the first place
3. It clearly requires specialist knowledge, despite what you claim
4. the risk profile is quite different to some of the alternatives
5. Income is certainly not guaranteed!
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 8th November 18:22
BlackLabel said:
@drainbrain, given you have so many tenants on housing benefit what happens when they start pocketing the cash and then refuse to leave?
Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
If you read PH regularly you might discover that many people encounter rent-stealing or non-paying according to the threads they start on that very topic. But I don't understand why you think it's any more prevalent amongst HB clients? If anything their rent-paying potential is more secure. However, the process of ensuring or safeguarding or protecting LHA payments (HB) is interesting but would be very lengthy to detail here. Court action for eviction in Scotland is not a swift process so 2-3 months without rent + legal fees would eat into a significant proportion of your profits.
It is very rare in my experience to be forced to legally evict tenants. Like divorce in a way. Mostly settled without and well before court proceedings.
And non-payment certainly doesn't arise as an issue of any profit-impacting significance although it certainly does happen. Occasional non-payment isn't a risk. In a long term btl it's a certainty. In relation to HB it's usually for administrative rather than dishonest reasons tho. IMHO of course.
sidicks said:
And yet:
1. You've only done it for one year - hardly conclusive = Very true. I'll upgrade again every 6 months which will obviously account for any changes in market conditions over that period.
2. You haven't explained how to obtain funds to acquire properties in the first place. = If I said "there are a million stories in the Naked City" would that make sense as an answer?
3. It clearly requires specialist knowledge, despite what you claim = Honestly, it can, and it can help, but it really isn't essential as so many who only own 1 or 2 can vouch.
4. the risk profile is quite different to some of the alternatives. = Let's not digress into deep water. You know my "Theory of Business Risk" which is that ultimately there's only ONE risk and it's common to all enterprises and investments.
5. Income is certainly not guaranteed! = Not like death is, but I have very rarely if ever failed to extract some income return from a btl and I doubt many people have unless only owned for a short period.
Further to 3) above. This popped into my email box today. What specialist knowledge of letting would you need to phone him and buy them and phone a local letting agent to manage them?1. You've only done it for one year - hardly conclusive = Very true. I'll upgrade again every 6 months which will obviously account for any changes in market conditions over that period.
2. You haven't explained how to obtain funds to acquire properties in the first place. = If I said "there are a million stories in the Naked City" would that make sense as an answer?
3. It clearly requires specialist knowledge, despite what you claim = Honestly, it can, and it can help, but it really isn't essential as so many who only own 1 or 2 can vouch.
4. the risk profile is quite different to some of the alternatives. = Let's not digress into deep water. You know my "Theory of Business Risk" which is that ultimately there's only ONE risk and it's common to all enterprises and investments.
5. Income is certainly not guaranteed! = Not like death is, but I have very rarely if ever failed to extract some income return from a btl and I doubt many people have unless only owned for a short period.
Please find below details of 11 flats available in Bowling, an excellent investment opportunity on a first come first serve basis
Home Reports attached.
· 2bedroom Valuation = £110k – potentially now £115k
· 1bedroom Valuation = £90k – potentially now £95k
1. Flat 0/1, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
2. Flat 0/2, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 1 bedroom = £75,000
3. Flat 0/3, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
4. Flat 0/4, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
5. Flat 1/1, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
6. Flat 1/2, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 1 bedroom = £75,000
7. Flat 1/4, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
8. Flat 2/1, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
9. Flat 2/3, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
10. Flat 2/4, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 2 bedroom = £93,000
11. Flat 3/2, 2 littlemill Court, Bowling Glasgow G60 5BP – 1 bedroom = £75,000
1% market finder’s fee applied on concluded missives.
All Currently tenanted at £550 for 2 bedroom & £450 for 1 bedroom
Please contact me should you require further information on the properties
Regards
Hugh Mulgrew
Eldo House, Monkton Road, Prestwick,KA9 2PB
T: 01292 435206
M: 07795437720
Drainbrain Ps: As your btl adviser I wouldn't. We can get much more bang for the buck!
Ginge R said:
If you are referring to my link, is that 'spreading uncertainty' or facilitating insight? The DB landscape is fast becoming a dystopia - advisers read stories weekly about how things are going, it helps no one to suggest that savers stick their heads in the sand and do nothing instead. Indeed, many advisers who suggest to a client NOT to move a DB pension these days, are as exposed to the likelihood of a complaint as they may have been, fifteen years ago, if they erroneously suggested that a client should move it.
The 99/100 scenario you suggest was probably looking ropey before pension freedoms, gilt yields, transfer values, errant buy out consequences, deficits, RPI/CPI, new estate planning considerations etc, changed things anyway. The changes that DB savers are being exposed to are not akin to being blasted to smithereens with high pressure water; rather, having legislators and politicians insidiously erode their rights over time, dripping water into the fissures of a retirement plan.
I don't facilitate DB/DC transfers because I have no need to, and because the vast majority of my DB clients can't transfer anyway. I have no dog in this fight.
Useful perspective.The 99/100 scenario you suggest was probably looking ropey before pension freedoms, gilt yields, transfer values, errant buy out consequences, deficits, RPI/CPI, new estate planning considerations etc, changed things anyway. The changes that DB savers are being exposed to are not akin to being blasted to smithereens with high pressure water; rather, having legislators and politicians insidiously erode their rights over time, dripping water into the fissures of a retirement plan.
I don't facilitate DB/DC transfers because I have no need to, and because the vast majority of my DB clients can't transfer anyway. I have no dog in this fight.
https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/issues/10-novembe...
Granfondo said:
In Groaks world eviction takes a lot less than that! 
OP; thinking of "Performance" and others of its era - did/do you have a Jack Carter or a Chas to help smooth out problems with difficult tenants?
Revisitph said:
This thread is in danger of dropping off the bottom of the page as the finance forum gladiators -vs- OP seem to be on a timeout...
OP; thinking of "Performance" and others of its era - did/do you have a Jack Carter or a Chas to help smooth out problems with difficult tenants?
The proper response to that dreadful insinuation is: "on legal advice I offer 'no comment' ". OP; thinking of "Performance" and others of its era - did/do you have a Jack Carter or a Chas to help smooth out problems with difficult tenants?
The reality is, no, not once, not ever, and never will. I know 'the streets' and there's no respect from being a bully, just fear. Don't really need fear. Better business from being kind. Better rep, better life. Obviously at the lower end of the tenancy chain there's more needs. Knowing that and reacting to it the right way's a good part of making it work…..
https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=...
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