Retirement funded by BTL - Reality after 1 year.
Discussion
227bhp said:
Thanks for your interesting insight, i'm no expert (internet or otherwise) but i'm inclined to agree with you.
My financial adviser sorts out mortgages and pension plans for people on a daily basis, you know where he's got his own money invested? BTL.
Funnily enough, mine too. Good bloke. Next week he and I and my ex-taxi partner are off to look at a fixer-upper aka 6 month cash-flow nightmare. I actually ENJOY these which makes me a good partner for the other two who can't be assed with the restoration/renovation hassle. Haven't done a buy-to-sell for a good while, but I don't suppose it's changed much. In this case it'll be for sale to occupiers rather than landlords. Last time I did that market I just got out by the seat of my pants in a fast-dropping market. The buyer got a lurvly house, tho, which is a sort of warm and fuzzy feeling.My financial adviser sorts out mortgages and pension plans for people on a daily basis, you know where he's got his own money invested? BTL.
Properly executed buy-to-sell is much more lucrative than buy-to-let in my experience. Most of the skill (luck in my case) is in the buying. Get that right and the rest's really simple. Love the 3-man team approach. Sourcer, sorter, seller. But it is a cash-flow b
h until you get the leapfrogging in line. (Plus I can do it discreetly enough so she doesn't find out I'm 'working' again.
)drainbrain said:
Other people inherit it.
Other people get 100% finance for it. That takes a certain amount of buying skill (or in my case, luck) and time to unburden, but there's no rush, is there?
Whilst in the real world not many people set-up a property letting company and run it for 20 years in order to be given 14 properties?Other people get 100% finance for it. That takes a certain amount of buying skill (or in my case, luck) and time to unburden, but there's no rush, is there?
100% finance for property, who with?
You talk as though you are one of the Candy brothers yet own 4 properties of relatively small value producing modest rental incomes?
Unless I have misunderstood your posts, and you are the mysterious letting agent who now has 14 properties?
Zoon said:
Whilst in the real world not many people set-up a property letting company and run it for 20 years in order to be given 14 properties?
I feel better about myself having worked out how much 14 £25k properties is. I could swap my house for a whole street in Zoon said:
Whilst in the real world not many people set-up a property letting company and run it for 20 years in order to be given 14 properties?
100% finance for property, who with?
You talk as though you are one of the Candy brothers yet own 4 properties of relatively small value producing modest rental incomes?
Unless I have misunderstood your posts, and you are the mysterious letting agent who now has 14 properties?
I started a letting company which I sold. Then started another which has ended up in the hands of a guy who has paid not one personal penny to own it. One of its assets is an unburdened portfolio of 14. He is the sole shareholder of a company which owns the properties. He has therefore obtained these properties for nothing. 100% finance for property, who with?
You talk as though you are one of the Candy brothers yet own 4 properties of relatively small value producing modest rental incomes?
Unless I have misunderstood your posts, and you are the mysterious letting agent who now has 14 properties?
I am not a Candy Brother never mind a Livingstone Brother. There are probably no better living examples of how property business can be done than Los Livingstones. They are Premier League. I'm Conference League division 3. This year the cash surplus from my portfolio - after paying its dues debts and my living and luxury expenses has allowed for the purchase of 4 small and modest properties.
The point I am making is this: It is perfectly possible to allow retirement to be funded by a BTL investment without any supplementary pension, SIPP, ISA, or anything else at all. Not in theory, in practice. For 1 year at least. Maybe next year some doom will overtake it and next year's reality check will be of how I wished I had an annuity instead of a btl portfolio to provide retirement income. So far, this is not the case.
Often it is suggested that BTL on its own is a risky way to fund retirement. I never really understood why anyone would think that and the reality of matters is that it ain't. It's turned out - after 1 year - to be a great way to fund it. So if you're thinking of doing it yourself, believe me it's not only possible but relatively easy.
768 said:
I feel better about myself having worked out how much 14 £25k properties is. I could swap my house for a whole street in some suburb of Glasgow an independent council area not near any recognisable city name.
LOL!! Actually in our pomp me and the buy-to-sell partner must have peaked at about 1000 units in our names or via companies we controlled. He ended up with about 600 and me with 200. Don't even know how many buy-to-sells we did. Certainly hundreds. Having bought back my debt I'm now down to about 75 unburdened on which I'm hoping to drawdown £150k by year end.. It should be 120 units with a 1.5M debt but RBS reneged on our deal. Some of them are higher values. A couple of the commercials reach to the 200-250k level. But my favourites are always the real cheapos and the ones I've got for nothing. It's weird to think about what you said. Folk in unburdened 3 bed flats in SW10 worth £3M or £4M who could be living in a mansion on an estate here and living off a 100 property portfolio bringing them 10k a week yet prefer not to. Bizarre really.
Broccers said:
Sounds to me that you arent retired and are just doing what you always did.
Well I don't go to work anymore and the two main trading companies have been sold. The properties are under full management and the passive interests don't require more than a short quarterly meeting. That's retired, isn't it? Do what I like with the day etc. Mind you I have to do pretty intense rehab for at least another 6 months I'd guess which is, I suppose, a sort of work. Plus I still get involved in the odd thing that I'd once have called work, but purely voluntarily. I dunno but it certainly seems like retirement and very different from the old routine.FredClogs said:
Broccers said:
Sounds to me that you arent retired and are just doing what you always did.
Ha ha that was my thought, along with "worst I'm a golden gen baby boomer who loves Peter Rachman thread ever".If you're enjoying thinking then think about this and help me with it. In these days of mountainous compliance and regulation and scrutiny and enforcement especially in a socialist-governed state at both local and national level as Scotland is , how would it be possible to get away with decades of Rachmanism or Hoogstraatenism and still retain registrations and licences from the regulatory authorities who for some time have proactively searched for antisocial business conduct and who react fiercely to public or client complaint?
Ozzie Osmond said:
Not as bizarre as your first post in this thread. You've been well and truly found out.
OzOs
Well what YOU'VE found out (I hope) is that it's perfectly possible to satisfactorily fund life in retirement solely with btl income. I think you've previously doubted that. Now you have living proof. I hope you don't have difficulty accepting it.OzOs
drainbrain said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Not as bizarre as your first post in this thread. You've been well and truly found out.
OzOs
Well what YOU'VE found out (I hope) is that it's perfectly possible to satisfactorily fund life in retirement solely with btl income. I think you've previously doubted that. Now you have living proof. I hope you don't have difficulty accepting it.OzOs
drainbrain said:
Well what YOU'VE found out (I hope) is that it's perfectly possible to satisfactorily fund life in retirement solely with btl income. I think you've previously doubted that. Now you have living proof. I hope you don't have difficulty accepting it.
Or to put it another way, man who spends lifetime building a property business continues to do so in his 60s. Well done you.DonkeyApple said:
You're only one year in and as a 63 year old Glaswegian you've got to keep it all going for at least another year before you can claim it worked for your whole retirement.
Lol!! 65nb which would probably be some kind of methuselah in Shettleston or Possil! But trust me, even if it takes being kept alive by life support machine I am 110% determined to live long enough to get my cash back at £66 per month from the annuity barstwards who conned me out of my paltry pension pot. Can't really recall tbh but I think that's gonna take another 5 years.
To illustrate how useless an annuity is as an "investment", the tax free lump sum 14 years ago provided the deposits for two dungeons. Now long burden free, these produce +/- £700 per month which is only £100 less than the annuity produces in a year!
Annuity companies must be fabulously profitable. But they're really just for suckers now aren't they? What a good business to own, though. Suckers give you their pension pot. You use your city expertise to invest it. You give the sucker a few crumbs from the returns. You pocket the rest. And then when the sucker dies you flipping' KEEP the pot!!
Younger viewers maybe don't know but not that long ago you HAD to buy an annuity with the pot. What a scandal!
drainbrain said:
Annuity companies must be fabulously profitable. But they're really just for suckers now aren't they? What a good business to own, though. Suckers give you their pension pot. You use your city expertise to invest it. You give the sucker a few crumbs from the returns. You pocket the rest. And then when the sucker dies you flipping' KEEP the pot!!
Younger viewers maybe don't know but not that long ago you HAD to buy an annuity with the pot. What a scandal!
Priceless!Younger viewers maybe don't know but not that long ago you HAD to buy an annuity with the pot. What a scandal!
A thread where you boast about proving people wrong, having semi-retired for just one year!
And then you top it off by demonstrating your ignorance about annuities.
How predictable.
sidicks said:
drainbrain said:
Annuity companies must be fabulously profitable. But they're really just for suckers now aren't they? What a good business to own, though. Suckers give you their pension pot. You use your city expertise to invest it. You give the sucker a few crumbs from the returns. You pocket the rest. And then when the sucker dies you flipping' KEEP the pot!!
Younger viewers maybe don't know but not that long ago you HAD to buy an annuity with the pot. What a scandal!
Priceless!Younger viewers maybe don't know but not that long ago you HAD to buy an annuity with the pot. What a scandal!
A thread where you boast about proving people wrong, having semi-retired for just one year!
And then you top it off by demonstrating your ignorance about annuities.
How predictable.
I feel a bit embarrassed on his behalf if I'm honest.
DoubleSix said:
The guy is totally ignorant of financial matters.
I feel a bit embarrassed on his behalf if I'm honest.
Indeed. That doesn't mean he can't be successful with his approach (and I don't believe anyone has suggested otherwise, despite what he says).I feel a bit embarrassed on his behalf if I'm honest.
It's just that he doesn't really understand the alternatives very well, the different risk characteristics of different approaches or the suitability of his approach for the vast majority of people. Not sure why he bothers to comment.
Fair play that he's been successful in this chosen strategy which clearly works for him. What would be interesting is for him to produce a guide that might help nice buy-to-let investors, rather than gloat about his relative success.
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 27th October 21:25
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