Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

Author
Discussion

Big Al.

Original Poster:

68,795 posts

257 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all

Jockman

17,912 posts

159 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Vol 2 music

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Did we vote for volume 2.

No.

Should we get a vote on the outcome of volume 2.

Yes!

Elysium

13,755 posts

186 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Well that escalated quickly ....

Our Government has been aware for months of legal opinion that it would be unlawful to trigger article 50 without an Act of Parliament.

This exact point was covered on page 13 of a House of Commons Library Briefing Paper published 30th June titled "Brexit: how does the Article 50 process work?". The paper is still available for download here:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBri...

Worth noting that one of the legal opinions referenced is by Lord Pannick who represented the claimants in the this case and who wrote about the matter in the Times:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-giving-notic...

A further report based on the same points was published by the House of Lords Constitution Committee on the 13th Sept 2016.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/commi...

The Govt declared an intention to trigger article 50 without a parliamentary vote in the full knowledge that this approach may be unlawful.

This was a ridiculously dangerous move as the consequences of a successful JR challenge after the unlawful issue of an article 50 notice would be disastrous. It was entirely correct for this challenge to be brought now and there is no excuse for the Govt's actions and I am surprised that they have decided to appeal.

I hope there will not be a backlash against the claimants as in this case as this challenge was inevitable. They have simply allowed the lawyers to bring it in their names on a pro-bono basis.

I think Keir Starmer was spot on on the World at One earlier:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37860787

For those unable to listen, his view was that parliament would bring scrutiny to the Govt strategy rather than attempt to block Brexit.

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
The majority didn't vote for a Volume 2 which must mean they were happy with remaining in Volume 1... or I think that's how the retarded logic works.

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Elysium said:
I think Keir Starmer was spot on on the World at One earlier:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37860787

For those unable to listen, his view was that parliament would bring scrutiny to the Govt strategy rather than attempt to block Brexit.
For those that actually believe that - many MPs who have been interviewed today will voting to block Brexit.

Hosenbugler

1,854 posts

101 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Elysium said:
Well that escalated quickly ....

Our Government has been aware for months of legal opinion that it would be unlawful to trigger article 50 without an Act of Parliament.

This exact point was covered on page 13 of a House of Commons Library Briefing Paper published 30th June titled "Brexit: how does the Article 50 process work?". The paper is still available for download here:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBri...

Worth noting that one of the legal opinions referenced is by Lord Pannick who represented the claimants in the this case and who wrote about the matter in the Times:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-giving-notic...

A further report based on the same points was published by the House of Lords Constitution Committee on the 13th Sept 2016.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/commi...

The Govt declared an intention to trigger article 50 without a parliamentary vote in the full knowledge that this approach may be unlawful.

This was a ridiculously dangerous move as the consequences of a successful JR challenge after the unlawful issue of an article 50 notice would be disastrous. It was entirely correct for this challenge to be brought now and there is no excuse for the Govt's actions and I am surprised that they have decided to appeal.

I hope there will not be a backlash against the claimants as in this case as this challenge was inevitable. They have simply allowed the lawyers to bring it in their names on a pro-bono basis.

I think Keir Starmer was spot on on the World at One earlier:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37860787

For those unable to listen, his view was that parliament would bring scrutiny to the Govt strategy rather than attempt to block Brexit.
This is a blatant attempt to usurp the referenda result, no more, no less.

Reams of pontificating, waffle, and blatant obfuscation will not stop that fact.

In fact, the blatant use of anti democratic, autocrat forces to overturn the will of the electorate. A will endorsed by Parliament, in its granting of such consultation. Parliament asking for an answer to a question they asked of the electorate, they got it.

Get on with it, the alternative to article 50 is not good.

Mrr T

12,151 posts

264 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
CaptainSlow said:
The majority didn't vote for a Volume 2 which must mean they were happy with remaining in Volume 1... or I think that's how the retarded logic works.
The High Court ordered the opening of Vol 2 but this is being appealed.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Responses to E24man and PRTVR:

Replacing the judiciary because you don't like their independence is the action of a totalitarian state.

The UK constitution contains not an iota of EU law.

tomw2000

2,508 posts

194 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
CaptainSlow said:
The majority didn't vote for a Volume 2 which must mean they were happy with remaining in Volume 1... or I think that's how the retarded logic works.
But if we all vote to remain in vol.2 we can work together to change it from the inside?

smile

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
tomw2000 said:
CaptainSlow said:
The majority didn't vote for a Volume 2 which must mean they were happy with remaining in Volume 1... or I think that's how the retarded logic works.
But if we all vote to remain in vol.2 we can work together to change it from the inside?

smile
Volume 2 must be stopped immediately - not everybody voted for it.

230TE

2,506 posts

185 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
I've been at work. Did I miss something? Had a quick look at the BBC and all I found was a story about the Establishment ruling that the Establishment should (ideally) get what the Establishment wants. That doesn't seem very exciting to me. As far as I can tell we have still voted to leave the EU, unless there has been another referendum today while I was doing welding and stuff. Maybe I'm just too old and thick to understand smile

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
tomw2000 said:
CaptainSlow said:
The majority didn't vote for a Volume 2 which must mean they were happy with remaining in Volume 1... or I think that's how the retarded logic works.
But if we all vote to remain in vol.2 we can work together to change it from the inside?

smile
laugh


Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
230TE said:
I've been at work. Did I miss something? Had a quick look at the BBC and all I found was a story about the Establishment ruling that the Establishment should (ideally) get what the Establishment wants. That doesn't seem very exciting to me. As far as I can tell we have still voted to leave the EU, unless there has been another referendum today while I was doing welding and stuff. Maybe I'm just too old and thick to understand smile
Basically, some rich tart and a bloke in a wig have said 'never mind the Referendum result, it'll all be decided by our elected representatives in Parliament'.

Am I over thinking this?

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
230TE said:
I've been at work. Did I miss something? Had a quick look at the BBC and all I found was a story about the Establishment ruling that the Establishment should (ideally) get what the Establishment wants. That doesn't seem very exciting to me. As far as I can tell we have still voted to leave the EU, unless there has been another referendum today while I was doing welding and stuff. Maybe I'm just too old and thick to understand smile
Read about the separation of powers.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Sorry to bring this up, but how do we think a u-turn would affect attitudes towards immigrants? I'm sure Ajd thinks they will be embraced, but I'm pretty sure this would not be the case

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
230TE said:
I've been at work. Did I miss something? Had a quick look at the BBC and all I found was a story about the Establishment ruling that the Establishment should (ideally) get what the Establishment wants. That doesn't seem very exciting to me. As far as I can tell we have still voted to leave the EU, unless there has been another referendum today while I was doing welding and stuff. Maybe I'm just too old and thick to understand smile
No change Fella, A50 might get delayed whilst the elite adjust their expensive suits and line up the next money fest at tax payers expense, and after spunking millions of hard earnt (by some) up the wall, we'll still leave the EU, so no change from Vol 1.

Life goes on, the bed wetting of the remainers has been put on hold for awhile, we'll give them a brief window of faux celebration as a gesture, then we'll crack on with leaving the shambles of the EU.

laugh

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
Hosenbugler said:
Elysium said:
Well that escalated quickly ....

Our Government has been aware for months of legal opinion that it would be unlawful to trigger article 50 without an Act of Parliament.

This exact point was covered on page 13 of a House of Commons Library Briefing Paper published 30th June titled "Brexit: how does the Article 50 process work?". The paper is still available for download here:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBri...

Worth noting that one of the legal opinions referenced is by Lord Pannick who represented the claimants in the this case and who wrote about the matter in the Times:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-giving-notic...

A further report based on the same points was published by the House of Lords Constitution Committee on the 13th Sept 2016.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/commi...

The Govt declared an intention to trigger article 50 without a parliamentary vote in the full knowledge that this approach may be unlawful.

This was a ridiculously dangerous move as the consequences of a successful JR challenge after the unlawful issue of an article 50 notice would be disastrous. It was entirely correct for this challenge to be brought now and there is no excuse for the Govt's actions and I am surprised that they have decided to appeal.

I hope there will not be a backlash against the claimants as in this case as this challenge was inevitable. They have simply allowed the lawyers to bring it in their names on a pro-bono basis.

I think Keir Starmer was spot on on the World at One earlier:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37860787

For those unable to listen, his view was that parliament would bring scrutiny to the Govt strategy rather than attempt to block Brexit.
This is a blatant attempt to usurp the referenda result, no more, no less.

Reams of pontificating, waffle, and blatant obfuscation will not stop that fact.

In fact, the blatant use of anti democratic, autocrat forces to overturn the will of the electorate. A will endorsed by Parliament, in its granting of such consultation. Parliament asking for an answer to a question they asked of the electorate, they got it.

Get on with it, the alternative to article 50 is not good.
no no no. You dont understand. We need to disregard what 17 million people ay but listen to what 3 say who wear wigs and gowns. Its the Remainers way. Sod off democracy: Minority rule!

B'stard Child

28,320 posts

245 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
twoblacklines said:
Article 50 is not going to happen. She never wanted it to happen, she was a strong Remain supporter. They will drag it out until Labor inevitably gets voted back in and hands us back to the EU with even less rights than we had before.

The UK as we know it is finished, this whole debacle has proved we have ZERO power, and that even when our public vote to leave the EU, we can't, because our Goverment won't allow it. End of democracy.
Calm down matey. Exit will happen. It just has to be done legally. These past few hours have been highly enlightening.

We have found that Remainers who have spent the past 4 months whingeing every day now actually have the nerve to tell Brexiteers to "suck it up" within a few hours of a result which they interpret as going in their favour. It tells you everything you need to know about the levels of hypocrisy that these people will sink to.

We have also found out that there is rarely as nauseating a sight as a (deluded) Remainer who thinks the result of the Referendum has just been successfully circumvented. - imagine their chagrin when it DOES happen after all.

We have also found out that this part of a simple legal process has yet to run its course. Bizarrely, some Remainers seem to think they have won a great victory, and that membership of their beloved EU is somehow saved - It isn't. We are still leaving. Might take a couple of extra months, but we are still on our way out.

Because, and this is the very simple part that Remainers on here seem to wilfully ignore, the country voted out. The past 4 months have shown how shabby the Remain camp is and, unlike Jawknee I really see no appetite to Remain, rather I see a slightly increased appetite to leave.
The people WILL win, or there will be a lot of unseated MPs come the next election
clap

So many good posts in Vol 1 thought this one was worth repeating in Vol 2

And secondly I hadn't finished this conversation

Jockman said:
B'stard Child said:
Jockman said:
I will be keeping the currency and using the card whenever possible.
Meh not so keen on using cards - prefer cash
Cards tap into the rate 'du jour' - shirley a better proposition now that the £ has popped a pill?
Yeah but they do have a nasty habit of getting cloned so I kinda steer clear and keep a card just for emergencies

230TE

2,506 posts

185 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
quotequote all
don'tbesilly said:
230TE said:
I've been at work. Did I miss something? Had a quick look at the BBC and all I found was a story about the Establishment ruling that the Establishment should (ideally) get what the Establishment wants. That doesn't seem very exciting to me. As far as I can tell we have still voted to leave the EU, unless there has been another referendum today while I was doing welding and stuff. Maybe I'm just too old and thick to understand smile
No change Fella, A50 might get delayed whilst the elite adjust their expensive suits and line up the next money fest at tax payers expense, and after spunking millions of hard earnt (by some) up the wall, we'll still leave the EU, so no change from Vol 1.

Life goes on, the bed wetting of the remainers has been put on hold for awhile, we'll give them a brief window of faux celebration as a gesture, then we'll crack on with leaving the shambles of the EU.

laugh
Ah, that's pretty much what I thought was happening. I was wondering if I was supposed to get excited and start posting angry shouty things, but on the evidence so far I can't be arsed. I'll go and make a curry instead.