Financial ties after seperation

[mjb1]

Sarnie said:

He's not on the deeds at all..........thats the point.

Apparently not, but he says that they had a deed of trust relating to the property. If it wasn't done at the same time the TR1 form was submitted, then I think his interest could be registered through a Form A/B restriction? That's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject though!

[anonymous-user]

Thanks for that. What is a form A/B? I've had a quick google but struggling to find it.

[mjb1]

When a deed of trust is created, the actual deed isn't lodged with the land registry, but a Form A restriction should be put on the register to show that the deed exists and bring it to attention whenever it is necessary. For example, if/when your ex tries to sell the property, the conveyancers should pick up on deeds existence and make sure things are divided up appropriately.

You don't have to be a named as a tenant in common on the title deeds, your interest can be registered through a Form A (or B) restriction. Have a look at the FAQ on deedoftrust.co.uk, they have a bit of guidance on the matter.

If the deed of trust has been executed correctly, it should be mentioned somewhere on the title deeds. Download a copy from the land registry and make sure that is the case. Beyond that you probably need to seek legal help.

[anonymous-user]

Thankyou for posting. That explains an awful lot.

I've now got a copy of the deeds. Would the words 'declaration of trust' or similar appear specifically? I'm unable to find any reference to it on the deeds.

Failing that, I need a copy of the declaration of trust which is in the house and I'm not going back there any time soon!

[Sarnie]

sebdangerfield said:

Thankyou for posting. That explains an awful lot.

I've now got a copy of the deeds. Would the words 'declaration of trust' or similar appear specifically? I'm unable to find any reference to it on the deeds.

Failing that, I need a copy of the declaration of trust which is in the house and I'm not going back there any time soon!

Can you not go back to the solicitor that did this for you? They should have office copies at least?

[Welshbeef]

OP

How much £ are you wanting?

[anonymous-user]

Sarnie said:

sebdangerfield said:

Thankyou for posting. That explains an awful lot.

I've now got a copy of the deeds. Would the words 'declaration of trust' or similar appear specifically? I'm unable to find any reference to it on the deeds.

Failing that, I need a copy of the declaration of trust which is in the house and I'm not going back there any time soon!

Can you not go back to the solicitor that did this for you? They should have office copies at least?

I'm assuming so. Just getting all details together, or at least as many as possible before we sit down and talk it out. I can the request a copy from the ex or go to the solicitor if things aren't amicable.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

OP

How much £ are you wanting?

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

[Welshbeef]

sebdangerfield said:

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

How much have you actually paid off the mortgage together?
Given she stumped up the big deposit v zero from you how much benefit in and capital gain do you think she deserves from taking that risk- I ask as if it hassle made a loss would you be willing to pay her for the lost deposit? You risked zero in this respect.

[Welshbeef]

sebdangerfield said:

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

So bought for £170k
Possibly worth £250-300k

She paid in £50k deposit plus £25k development £75k

Worst case sell £250k
Less purchase price £(170)k
Less her £(25)k
Less selling fees £?
Total potential gain is £55k

But the property isn't sold isn't on the market - what if it takes a decade to sell?or let's say you want to push for a fast sell but in doing so it means it sells for much less meaning zero gains.

Also who's name is the mortgage in?

[Sarnie]

Welshbeef said:

sebdangerfield said:

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

So bought for £170k
Possibly worth £250-300k

She paid in £50k deposit plus £25k development £75k

Worst case sell £250k
Less purchase price £(170)k
Less her £(75)k
Less selling fees £?
Total potential gain is £5k plus the reduction of the mortgage over the duration.

I've corrected your figures...........I'm assuming that the OP expects this to be worth closer to the £300k mark than the £250k mark........

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

sebdangerfield said:

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

How much have you actually paid off the mortgage together?
Given she stumped up the big deposit v zero from you how much benefit in and capital gain do you think she deserves from taking that risk- I ask as if it hassle made a loss would you be willing to pay her for the lost deposit? You risked zero in this respect.

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking for advice. In terms of the mortgage, it's been paid jointly since the outset. The total paid off is probably around 12 months.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 8th December 18:26

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

sebdangerfield said:

It's difficult to put a figure on without getting the property valued as it's a 2 bed converted chapel and nothing similar in the local area so It's very remote so difficult value. The most local 2 bed period conversion albeit with less land recently sold for £300k. We anticipated a value of anything between £250-£300k+

What I'm looking for is my half of what we've added to the property/paid off on the mortgage whilst we've had it.

So bought for £170k
Possibly worth £250-300k

She paid in £50k deposit plus £25k development £75k

Worst case sell £250k
Less purchase price £(170)k
Less her £(25)k
Less selling fees £?
Total potential gain is £55k

But the property isn't sold isn't on the market - what if it takes a decade to sell?or let's say you want to push for a fast sell but in doing so it means it sells for much less meaning zero gains.

Also who's name is the mortgage in?

As in the OP, the mortgage is in her name. Had it been in joint, it wouldnt be a question of what to do.

[Welshbeef]

sebdangerfield said:

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking for advice. In terms of the mortgage, it's been paid jointly since the outset. The total paid off is probably around 12 months.

Edited by sebdangerfield on Thursday 8th December 18:26

1 year you'll have paid hardly anything off of the mortgage

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

1 year you'll have paid hardly anything off of the mortgage

Thankyou, I'm aware of that and done all of my amortisation calculations etc. in terms of overpayments but I was genuinely just asking the question in the OP. I can do the maths, I just wanted to know if anyone is aware of how binding a declaration of trust would be in terms of the original agreement with my then fiancée.

[Welshbeef]

sebdangerfield said:

Thankyou, I'm aware of that and done all of my amortisation calculations etc. in terms of overpayments but I was genuinely just asking the question in the OP. I can do the maths, I just wanted to know if anyone is aware of how binding a declaration of trust would be in terms of the original agreement with my then fiancée.

And our question to you which you are not sure on is what £ value are you really after given all the info you have shared.

You flag up you've been paying into the mortgage so wanted some of that benefit - yet above you state you clearly know very little is paid off... so you want half of very little.. ok. So until she actually sells your in a hole as otherwise you are trying to assume a £value based upon a total guess on value.

Question what if she doesn't sell for 30 years? She doesn't have to buy you out nor does she have to sell

[anonymous-user]

But the question I'm asking is, 'am I entitled to a part of the profit we made on the house as agreed when we purchased it, developed it and paid the mortgage on it?' Would that entitlement be different if the claim was £25k or £250k? Whatever value that is can be agreed later. I just feel there's little to benefit from guessing at figures.

[Welshbeef]

sebdangerfield said:

But the question I'm asking is, 'am I entitled to a part of the profit we made on the house as agreed when we purchased it, developed it and paid the mortgage on it?' Would that entitlement be different if the claim was £25k or £250k? Whatever value that is can be agreed later. I just feel there's little to benefit from guessing at figures.

The agreement is verbal.
Paid mortgage... you paid half of one year interest only mortgage a tiny amount - drop that one seriously.


My question what if she sells it upon her retirement or let's say @70years old in let's say 40years time. No gain has been made and regardless of any valuations you get until you find an actual buyer it's all a guess. So right now you've made nothing at all you think and hope you have but that is all. IF BREXIT causes the value of this house to drop way below the £170k after you've agreed some £250-300k valuation and she has paid you out is that fair? Would you then pay her back and pay in for he on lapsed loss? No I doubt you would.



Anyway why do I keep mentioning how much gain - it's all about effort v reward. So if you've made £1k then it's not worth it if you've made £500k probably is. But you have to guage the effort v the size of the pie. But size of pie can only be realised upon it being sold.

[anonymous-user]

Ah ok, that makes more sense. Thankyou. Apart from the mortgage being interest only; I'd not said that but it's insignificant either way. Thanks again

[mjb1]

Welshbeef said:

The agreement is verbal.
Paid mortgage... you paid half of one year interest only mortgage a tiny amount - drop that one seriously.

The agreement isn't verbal, it's whatever is specified in the deed of trust. It shouldn't be a case of 'how much does he want', it should be clearly defined by the deed. The only uncertain variable is what the property is actually worth now. Local estate agents should be able to give you a reasonable idea. I suppose the real acid test would be to put it on the market and see what (if any) offers you get. You/her don't have to accept them, but at least you'd know for real what someone else is prepared to pay.

All this assumes that the deed has been correctly executed and is legally binding. I'd expect it's Form A/B restriction to be pretty obvious if it's in there, so that might be a worry.

sebdangerfield said:

I'm assuming so. Just getting all details together, or at least as many as possible before we sit down and talk it out. I can the request a copy from the ex or go to the solicitor if things aren't amicable.

I think you'd be better getting a copy of the deed without her knowledge, well before you start negotiating with her. She'll know exactly how it defines the share, and it might be good or bad for you, but you want to know either way asap. Probably best to get a copy from the solicitor.