Declined Mortgage in Principle - Mild State of Panic

Declined Mortgage in Principle - Mild State of Panic

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Discussion

yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
romeogolf said:
Thanks! And yeah, I think 2 weeks is normal.
That would have been nice. I bailed out at 5 weeks after about 15 questions from the lender, none of which made any sense.

i.e. where did this money come from? (errrr, it was moved from the current account to the savings account after I got paid. You have full statements from both accounts).

I've no idea what it takes to get a mortgage, but so far it's been one hassle after another. It seems that saving money for a deposit is highly suspicious to lenders.... (thank you Nationwide)


Edited by yajeed on Wednesday 8th February 22:09

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
That would have been nice. I bailed out at 5 weeks after about 15 questions from the lender, none of which made any sense.

i.e. where did this money come from? (errrr, it was moved from the current account to the savings account after I got paid. You have full statements from both accounts).

I've no idea what it takes to get a mortgage, but so far it's been one hassle after another. It seems that saving money for a deposit is highly suspicious to lenders.... (thank you Nationwide)
Having just been approved a mortgage I totally agree with this. In this day and age, having any sort of deposit is seen as highly suspicious and they want to know exactly where it came from. Considering I only have access to bank statements up to a year ago, how are you supposed to prove it if granny gave you some money 10 years ago. I also changed bank accounts 9 months ago to take advantage of a better interest rate so my old account is closed. Most of my deposit came from my divorce settlement and even after producing the documents from the court highlighting the sum in question I was told this may not be enough evidence.



Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
That would have been nice. I bailed out at 5 weeks after about 15 questions from the lender, none of which made any sense.

i.e. where did this money come from? (errrr, it was moved from the current account to the savings account after I got paid. You have full statements from both accounts).

I've no idea what it takes to get a mortgage, but so far it's been one hassle after another. It seems that saving money for a deposit is highly suspicious to lenders.... (thank you Nationwide)


Edited by yajeed on Wednesday 8th February 22:09
Lenders have to satisfy money laundering regulations......even if the answer is obvious they have a duty to ask the question (to cover their arse) and record your answer....

yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
Lenders have to satisfy money laundering regulations......even if the answer is obvious they have a duty to ask the question (to cover their arse) and record your answer....
That I understand.

However, I've read the regs and their interpretation of them does seem to be overkill.

My favourite was proving a car sale. I sold to a dealer and yet a receipt, contact details of the purchaser and a bank transfer from a business with 'Porsche' in the name wasn't sufficient; they needed DVLA proof. I'm not even sure that exists, especially as they only record registered keeper, not owner.

Anyway, after the last house fell through I was thankful to end the tortuous process of asking one question at a time and refusing to explain how many questions they had, what exactly they needed or whether they were actually planning on eventually giving me a mortgage.

I've found other house, so it's now trying to gauge whether I stick with the devil I know or start again with another lender

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
refusing to explain how many questions they had, what exactly they needed or whether they were actually planning on eventually giving me a mortgage.
With regards to that, I get asked this all the time..........one question requires an answer.....that answer may lead to another question or it may not, depending on your answer.....it might be satisfactory or it may not.....a lender may ask for a latest bank statement for example, then they may ask for 3 months bank statements which may lead them to ask for six months bank statements......people will ask "how much more are they going to ask for??"......and the answer unfortunately is "as much as it takes to satisfy their requirements"..........



yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
With regards to that, I get asked this all the time..........one question requires an answer.....that answer may lead to another question or it may not, depending on your answer.....it might be satisfactory or it may not.....a lender may ask for a latest bank statement for example, then they may ask for 3 months bank statements which may lead them to ask for six months bank statements......people will ask "how much more are they going to ask for??"......and the answer unfortunately is "as much as it takes to satisfy their requirements"..........
I suspect you get asked because it makes little sense.

If they have 3 months worth of statement and 10 suspect items, why not run the investigation into those 10 items concurrently?

Otherwise it's question 1, answer, 2 days wait, question 2, answer, 2 days wait etc etc

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
I suspect you get asked because it makes little sense.

If they have 3 months worth of statement and 10 suspect items, why not run the investigation into those 10 items concurrently?
Because they will want to see if the thing that concerns them runs into the previous statements too.........

The best thing to do is to pre-empt any issue with a new lender and be upfront and tell them the issues you had with a previous lender and ask them whether it will be an issue for them and what they would want to see............the main issue that people have is fighting the lender and resisting what is being requested,whether you understand it or agree with it, provide what has been requested at the earliest opportunity and move on smile



yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
Because they will want to see if the thing that concerns them runs into the previous statements too.........

The best thing to do is to pre-empt any issue with a new lender and be upfront and tell them the issues you had with a previous lender and ask them whether it will be an issue for them and what they would want to see............the main issue that people have is fighting the lender and resisting what is being requested,whether you understand it or agree with it, provide what has been requested at the earliest opportunity and move on smile
I guess that's the source of my frustration; I've no idea what their issues are. I've responded within the hour every time and have a folder of 'evidence' that I can provide a lender as a result.

Affordability isn't an issue, it's purely money laundering checks.

The process seemed to be 'explain every transaction over 1000 pounds' on your bank statements for the last 12 months', including transfers to savings accounts etc.

I've done that, but it's now proving really odd things like that the Porsche dealer that transferred a sum of money actually bought my Porsche, that it was mine to sell etc.

Is it possible they've decided they don't want the business and are just stalling until I give up?

Obviously if that's the case, I'll choose another lender, but if it's the same level of scrutiny everywhere I may as well choose the same lender and reference the other application to avoid repeating myself.

Alternatively I can wait until the 'tidying up' exercise to make my finances absolutely straightforward is off my 3 months worth of statements. I've tried 'ignore that transaction and I won't use it as part of my deposit' but that doesn't work either.

Sorry for the ranting - I really do appreciate someone with experience of the process spending the time to explain it.

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
Is it possible they've decided they don't want the business and are just stalling until I give up?
Not usually. Lenders are very good at kicking your application out if they aren't going to lend. Don't forget, your application will be clogging up their pipeline, taking up staff hours and affecting their service level stats........if there is something categoric within your circumstances that means they won't lend to you, then normally they'll bounce it straight away.

What you experiencing is what happens when you apply directly to a lender rather than via broker. When you apply directly the lender is then fully responsible for the advice which is why you need 2 or 3 hour long telephone appointments or have to go into branch and have every transaction scrutinised and have your source of deposit questioned. When you apply via an intermediary, they are then responsible for the advice so it's their responsibility to check your bank statements and ensure your source of deposit is credible and plausible which ultimately means that the lender has less requests of the applicant. For example, not all lenders will ask us for Proof of Deposit......apply directly and you will have to provide it. If we say it's coming from savings, if it's a plausible amount and in line with your income (eg a £25k deposit from a couple earning £70k between them) then they probably won't ask us to provide evidence of it, although we are required by the FCA to have it on file anyway, apply directly and the lender needs to verify it so expect to have to provide it. If you have a £200k deposit and your stated income is £20k, expect them to think that that's not plausible and want to see the evidence (an accrual of funds over a period of time)........

Good luck!! smile

Jimmy No Hands

5,008 posts

155 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
I disputed an energy bill that long story short, lead me into arrears. (They made a new account solely in my name although it was in my partners name originally, due to me paying off my debit card I assume)

Went for a DIP recently, lender queried it straight away. Fortunately I had proof the account had been paid and closed and heard no more about it, was slightly concerning though. Amount was £27!

It's hammered my credit rating into the floor too. bds.

Greshamst

2,028 posts

119 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
Alternatively I can wait until the 'tidying up' exercise to make my finances absolutely straightforward is off my 3 months worth of statements. I've tried 'ignore that transaction and I won't use it as part of my deposit' but that doesn't work either.
Sounds to me like you've come up as a high risk for money laundering risk, and they're going through enhanced due diligence.

The whole 'ignore that transaction' tactic is likely to arouse more suspicion. Banks don't tend to really be able to turn a blind eye to something they think may be related to money laundering

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Greshamst said:
The whole 'ignore that transaction' tactic is likely to arouse more suspicion. Banks don't tend to really be able to turn a blind eye to something they think may be related to money laundering
Correct.

If they suspect Money Laundering they can't just ignore it.

Also, this is why you only send to a lender, literally the only things they have requested, no more. Eg if they ask for one months statement, don't send them 2 or 3 as they HAVE to assess all documents sent to them and if their are issues on those additional statements you can't just say "Ignore those statements then as you didn't ask for them originally anyway".....too late for that. A decent broker will know all this from experience and will plot the way through your documents and minimise the amount of contact required between lender and applicant.....

yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
What you experiencing is what happens when you apply directly to a lender rather than via broker.
It's through a broker, who just bounce questions from lender to me and back.

Sarnie said:
If it's a plausible amount and in line with your income (eg a £25k deposit from a couple earning £70k between them) then they probably won't ask us to provide evidence of it
The deposit is around about the same amount as on my p60 (I provided 3 of those, as requested) so not massively unrealistic I don't think, and the loan amount just over that figure.

Sarnie said:
Good luck!! smile
Sounds like I need it! It does sound like I've been flagged as a risk of money laundering. However, since I'm effectively just buying a house following a divorce and the source of funds is pretty straightforward (savings, share proceeds, car sale), I'm not quite sure how it's so complicated.


alangtt

278 posts

161 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Jimmy No Hands said:
I disputed an energy bill that long story short, lead me into arrears. (They made a new account solely in my name although it was in my partners name originally, due to me paying off my debit card I assume)

Went for a DIP recently, lender queried it straight away. Fortunately I had proof the account had been paid and closed and heard no more about it, was slightly concerning though h. Amount was £27!

It's hammered my credit rating into the floor too. bds.
So did you get approved? Did they not have a problem With your low score?
Reason I ask is this happened to Me at the time of going for a MIP. Failed the Credit check straight away, I had a payed for bank account that was slowly chipping away at its self and went into arrears (4). I was so embarrassed, it's a year later and have seen a a house we other like the look of and thinking about going for it again. Credit score is still on the floor though. 370 experian frown I'm guessing there's people worse than me though.


Edited by alangtt on Thursday 9th February 14:07

yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
Sounds like I need it! It does sound like I've been flagged as a risk of money laundering. However, since I'm effectively just buying a house following a divorce and the source of funds is pretty straightforward (savings, share proceeds, car sale), I'm not quite sure how it's so complicated.
Yep, I needed it. Still asking absolutely pointless questions. The latest is 'why did you pay someone 100 quid 4 months ago'. I can't actually remember because it's insignificant.

Apparently that was acceptable so they're going to think up some more questions.

Time to bail, and find a different lender I think.... 7 weeks wasted. Let's hope their enquires haven't damaged my credit score (which was 999 with Experian before we started this process).






Edited by yajeed on Saturday 25th February 11:03

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
quotequote all
yajeed said:
Yep, I needed it. Still asking absolutely pointless questions. The latest is 'why did you pay someone 100 quid 4 months ago'. I can't actually remember because it's insignificant.

Apparently that was acceptable so they're going to think up some more questions.

Time to bail, and find a different lender I think.... 7 weeks wasted. Let's hope their enquires haven't damaged my credit score (which was 999 with Experian before we started this process).






Edited by yajeed on Saturday 25th February 11:03
Just move on......other lenders are available!

Gazzas86

1,707 posts

170 months

Tuesday 28th March 2017
quotequote all
Just jumping in on this thread as it seems alot of people who have commented here have gone through what me and the OH are going through at the minute.

We sold our house in December and the money got paid into our acc (120k), being smart we thought we would do a sensible thing and split it up into online savings accounts...

We found a house we liked last month and had an offer accepted, we have gone through a Broker who is doing everything for us mortgage wise.

We have gone for.....Nationwide because they gave us the best rates, and were ok that my wife is still in her probation period at work (Broker pre-checked this with underwriters)

Then.. it gets annoying to say the least... If only i had kept the 'deposit' all in one account would it have been so much easier, they wanted every account statement for all accounts which held the deposit money, (Problem is.. the money was in online only accounts and do not generate statements)... so getting a 'statement' which nationwide would accept took a long time and has delayed us..

The application is in its 2nd week now, and i've been speaking to the broker daily, his latest as of earlier today was.. it's been signed off by the underwriters and it's got to go to the money laundering team tomorrow.. he recons it should be sorted close of play tomorrow.

as others have expressed... It seems having money in savings accounts is going against us, and no doubt the money laundering team tomorrow will want more information from us. we're putting a 30% deposit down, and have 145k split over a few accounts, they have all the account statements yet seem to want to know where it all is/or came from.

Has anyone else ever had a mortgage application go to underwriters/money laundering team?? is this usual?

Sarnie

8,025 posts

208 months

Tuesday 28th March 2017
quotequote all
Gazzas86 said:
Just jumping in on this thread as it seems alot of people who have commented here have gone through what me and the OH are going through at the minute.

We sold our house in December and the money got paid into our acc (120k), being smart we thought we would do a sensible thing and split it up into online savings accounts...

We found a house we liked last month and had an offer accepted, we have gone through a Broker who is doing everything for us mortgage wise.

We have gone for.....Nationwide because they gave us the best rates, and were ok that my wife is still in her probation period at work (Broker pre-checked this with underwriters)

Then.. it gets annoying to say the least... If only i had kept the 'deposit' all in one account would it have been so much easier, they wanted every account statement for all accounts which held the deposit money, (Problem is.. the money was in online only accounts and do not generate statements)... so getting a 'statement' which nationwide would accept took a long time and has delayed us..

The application is in its 2nd week now, and i've been speaking to the broker daily, his latest as of earlier today was.. it's been signed off by the underwriters and it's got to go to the money laundering team tomorrow.. he recons it should be sorted close of play tomorrow.

as others have expressed... It seems having money in savings accounts is going against us, and no doubt the money laundering team tomorrow will want more information from us. we're putting a 30% deposit down, and have 145k split over a few accounts, they have all the account statements yet seem to want to know where it all is/or came from.

Has anyone else ever had a mortgage application go to underwriters/money laundering team?? is this usual?
This is all normal...............you have to be able to satisfy money laundering regulations to evidence the source of deposit.......nothing unusual...........the ironic thing about your post is that Nationwide are the worst lender for clients sending us evidence of their deposit held in Nationwide ISA's, and Nationwide do not produce statements or even put the clients name on print outs........making it difficult to evidence that the account is actually the clients and thus satisfy Anti-Money Laundering regulations....

Anyway, if the only issue is getting your deposit evidenced satisfactorily, then don't worry about it, it will get sorted, even if you have to wait a bit longer for acceptable statements to be sent to you..............


Edited by Sarnie on Wednesday 29th March 22:43

Gazzas86

1,707 posts

170 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
Gazzas86 said:
Just jumping in on this thread as it seems alot of people who have commented here have gone through what me and the OH are going through at the minute.

We sold our house in December and the money got paid into our acc (120k), being smart we thought we would do a sensible thing and split it up into online savings accounts...

We found a house we liked last month and had an offer accepted, we have gone through a Broker who is doing everything for us mortgage wise.

We have gone for.....Nationwide because they gave us the best rates, and were ok that my wife is still in her probation period at work (Broker pre-checked this with underwriters)

Then.. it gets annoying to say the least... If only i had kept the 'deposit' all in one account would it have been so much easier, they wanted every account statement for all accounts which held the deposit money, (Problem is.. the money was in online only accounts and do not generate statements)... so getting a 'statement' which nationwide would accept took a long time and has delayed us..

The application is in its 2nd week now, and i've been speaking to the broker daily, his latest as of earlier today was.. it's been signed off by the underwriters and it's got to go to the money laundering team tomorrow.. he recons it should be sorted close of play tomorrow.

as others have expressed... It seems having money in savings accounts is going against us, and no doubt the money laundering team tomorrow will want more information from us. we're putting a 30% deposit down, and have 145k split over a few accounts, they have all the account statements yet seem to want to know where it all is/or came from.

Has anyone else ever had a mortgage application go to underwriters/money laundering team?? is this usual?
This is all normal...............you have to be able to satisfy money laundering regulations to evidence the source of deposit.......nothing unusual...........the ironic thing about your post is that Nationwide are the worst lender for clients sending us evidence of their deposit held in Nationwide ISA's, and Nationwide do not produce statement or even put the clients name on print outs........making it difficult to evidence that the account is actually the clients and thus satisfy Anti-Money Laundering regulations....

Anyway, if the only issue is getting your deposit evidenced satisfactorily, then don't worry about it, it will get sorted, even if you have to wait a bit longer for acceptable statements to be sent to you..............
Thankyou Sarnie, your reply has put my mind to rest, and touch wood, all be sorted today

yajeed

4,888 posts

253 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Be prepared for (many) questions on where the money came from - i.e proof of those original transactions to split the money.

You'll get there, but in my experience, it needs a thick skin and a lot of patience with nationwide