£4.5 million - enough to not have to work again?

[big ant]

Of course, on these numbers....tax rate is meaningless, probably get down to effective 10% rate across all asset classes.

Biggest risk, diversifying into areas you don't understand...losing X and investing again, only to lose 2X.

Upside potential, 4.5m last year could reasonably have achieved 800k - 1m on FTSE BlueChip 'active' portfolio. But this year....coudl all be wiped out and more.

BA

[p1stonhead]

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

He is asking where to read up on what an index tracker is. He is DEFINITELY just gambling

[CarlosFandango11]

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

I would agree that all investments are a gamble.

I would be curious to know what investments you would consider not to be a gamble?

[SkrrSkrr]

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

Internet bs mixed with experience.

[SkrrSkrr]

p1stonhead said:

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

He is asking where to read up on what an index tracker is. He is DEFINITELY just gambling

Everyone is gambling.....
Just because you know about index trackers doesn't mean you are guaranteed to make money

[p1stonhead]

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

He is asking where to read up on what an index tracker is. He is DEFINITELY just gambling

Everyone is gambling.....
Just because you know about index trackers doesn't mean you are guaranteed to make money

Never said I was. But they are a fairly large part of the investment markets. Not knowing what they are whilst suggesting people invest millions in forex struck me as odd.

[SkrrSkrr]

p1stonhead said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

He is asking where to read up on what an index tracker is. He is DEFINITELY just gambling

Everyone is gambling.....
Just because you know about index trackers doesn't mean you are guaranteed to make money

Never said I was. But they are a fairly large part of the investment markets. Not knowing what they are whilst suggesting people invest millions in forex struck me as odd.

Sorry for not being as informed as you.

[Zigster]

CarlosFandango11 said:

Zigster said:

SkrrSkrr said:

p1stonhead said:

He could just as easily gone to a casino and put it on black. No difference and gambling is not relevent to planning for retirement.

All investments are a gamble

If you take it to the extreme, everything you do is a gamble. But that's quite a perverse definition of a gamble.

Some investments are gambles (and the one's you are talking about are gambles - I'm actually curious whether you genuinely know what you are talking about or whether your comments are just internet b/s); some investments are actually just investments.

I would agree that all investments are a gamble.

I would be curious to know what investments you would consider not to be a gamble?

Is this going to go the same way as the life insurance/assurance thread?

[NickCQ]

CarlosFandango11 said:

I would agree that all investments are a gamble.

I would be curious to know what investments you would consider not to be a gamble?

For me, a gamble has a zero or negative expected return, i.e. you are relying on volatility to make your return. Something like a coin toss. Whereas an investment has some underlying value creation process that gives it a positive expected return, albeit still with the risk of losing money.

[uk66fastback]

Don't risk more than you afford to lose, simple. Everyone's figures will be different.

[Dr Jekyll]

NickCQ said:

For me, a gamble has a zero or negative expected return, i.e. you are relying on volatility to make your return. Something like a coin toss. Whereas an investment has some underlying value creation process that gives it a positive expected return, albeit still with the risk of losing money.

But insurance, or hedging currency, has a negative expected return for the person taking out the insurance or hedging the risk. While the other guy is expecting a positive return for taking a risk he doesn't have to take. In this case I'd say the gambler is the one taking the risk not the one putting up with a probable negative return.

To me he distinction is that buying something because you think the value will increase is an investment. Buying (or selling) because you think you can assess the possibility of a future event better than whoever sets the price, is a gamble.

Obviously there is a grey area, and the same transaction can be both.

[twoblacklines]

Brads67 said:

Are you taking the piss?

That money would keep 20 people in comfort for there lifetime.

Seriously Dude ! Either you`re serious and thick, or a dreamer.

Really? Most people earn £1million over their whole lifetime, so how is £230k going to keep anyone "in comfort" for their lifetime?

[Stu-nph26]

twoblacklines said:

Really? Most people earn £1million over their whole lifetime, so how is £230k going to keep anyone "in comfort" for their lifetime?

Depends what you define as comfort. The ides is to live off 4% of your net worth. Smaller the amount you can live on the less you need.

[Behemoth]

NickCQ said:

For me, a gamble has a zero or negative expected return, i.e. you are relying on volatility to make your return. Something like a coin toss. Whereas an investment has some underlying value creation process that gives it a positive expected return, albeit still with the risk of losing money.

On that basis, leaving your cash in a bank gathering interest at less than inflation is most certainly a gamble. A bad one, at that.

[twoblacklines]

Stu-nph26 said:

Depends what you define as comfort. The ides is to live off 4% of your net worth. Smaller the amount you can live on the less you need.

Whos idea?

4%????? REALLY?

"The average adult in the UK has a net worth of around £147,000"

4% of 147000 is 5880.

Yeah good luck limiting yourself to spending £5880 a year.

[Stu-nph26]

twoblacklines said:

Whos idea?

4%????? REALLY?

"The average adult in the UK has a net worth of around £147,000"

4% of 147000 is 5880.

Yeah good luck limiting yourself to spending £5880 a year.

This isn't based on the average UK adult and it's a totally different lifestyle. Its based around this article, take a look http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shoc...