Lease cars and lack of pension provision
Discussion
drainbrain said:
Sid, not agreeing with your drivel (which TOTALLY and I mean TOTALLY lacks empathy with anyone other than those who swallow your drivel whole) means you have to launch into aggressive and even personal attacks on them.
I respond in the same tone as the posts to which I'm responding.My opinions are backed up by facts, unlike yours.
I'm massively ignorant about many things - I therefore don't choose to post on those topics where there are experts who do know what they are talking about. Perhaps you and the other posters should do the same?
sidicks said:
I therefore don't choose to post on those topics where there are experts who do know what they are talking about. Perhaps you and the other posters should do the same?
two things - Isn't the role of an "expert" to pass on their wisdom? if so then like i've been saying for pages maybe the approach needs to change for a new audience
and
I would never, personally, profess, to be an "expert" in anything because there is always more to learn and "experts" generally become targetted due to their demeanour and often a hole is found which leads to them falling on their face.
djc206 said:
The reduction of LTA from £1.8m to just £1m could be considered something of a raid I guess, bit tenuous though more just a shifting of the goalposts. Same with the AA reducing from £50k to £40k.
Reducing the amounts that people can accumulate or contribute in the future is not really what he was implying!craigjm said:
two things -
Isn't the role of an "expert" to pass on their wisdom? if so then like i've been saying for pages maybe the approach needs to change for a new audience
and
I would never, personally, profess, to be an "expert" in anything because there is always more to learn and "experts" generally become targetted due to their demeanour and often a hole is found which leads to them falling on their face.
As before, I respond in kind. There are plenty of threads on here were people have asked sensible and reasonable questions and they have received appropriate help and guidance.Isn't the role of an "expert" to pass on their wisdom? if so then like i've been saying for pages maybe the approach needs to change for a new audience
and
I would never, personally, profess, to be an "expert" in anything because there is always more to learn and "experts" generally become targetted due to their demeanour and often a hole is found which leads to them falling on their face.
However, someone coming on to a thread and aggressively stating nonsense as fact, does not deserve the same patience and understanding!
craigjm said:
Question to the millennials reading this thread then.....
What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
I think that people should consider a range of options for saving for their retirement - traditional pensions in isolation are unlikely to be the best strategy.What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
craigjm said:
Question to the millennials reading this thread then.....
What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
Well I'm in a workplace pension, because I'm told it's sensible and so I've run with it. I have extreme doubts that it will even return what's been paid in. The employer contribution match appears to make it a compelling proposition, but I have my doubts about even that.What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
Frankly the whole financial industry - not just pensions - has a reputation for being a collection of huge legalised scams. Pensions specifically are made deliberately horrendously complicated to the extent that it feels like little more than "give us your money and trust us, we'll let you know how we got in at the very end".
Most people my age and thereabouts feel the same way....it's a scam disguised under complicated rules designed to flummox those without financial qualifications.
If I put my money in a bank, I am guaranteed to at least get the same physical sum back, providing the bank doesn't go bust, and even then up to prescribed limits I am protected. It may be worth less due to inflation, but it's the same physical sum. A pension can't even guarantee that. It comes across as pie in the sky frankly.
zarjaz1991 said:
L
Frankly the whole financial industry - not just pensions - has a reputation for being a collection of huge legalised scams. Pensions specifically are made deliberately horrendously complicated to the extent that it feels like little more than "give us your money and trust us, we'll let you know how we got in at the very end".
Most people my age and thereabouts feel the same way....it's a scam disguised under complicated rules designed to flummox those without financial qualifications.
If I put my money in a bank, I am guaranteed to at least get the same physical sum back, providing the bank doesn't go bust, and even then up to prescribed limits I am protected. It may be worth less due to inflation, but it's the same physical sum. A pension can't even guarantee that. It comes across as pie in the sky frankly.
OK buddy so based on that, whats the plan?craigjm said:
Question to the millennials reading this thread then.....
What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
Well I'm in a workplace pension, because I'm told it's sensible and so I've run with it. I have extreme doubts that it will even return what's been paid in. The employer contribution match appears to make it a compelling proposition, but I have my doubts about even that.What is the plan, if any, for when you eventually retire?
and
Why have you chosen that view over the more traditional route of saving for a pension in the traditional way?
Frankly the whole financial industry - not just pensions - has a reputation for being a collection of huge legalised scams. Pensions specifically are made deliberately horrendously complicated to the extent that it feels like little more than "give us your money and trust us, we'll let you know how we got in at the very end".
Most people my age and thereabouts feel the same way....it's a scam disguised under complicated rules designed to flummox those without financial qualifications.
If I put my money in a bank, I am guaranteed to at least get the same physical sum back, providing the bank doesn't go bust, and even then up to prescribed limits I am protected. It may be worth less due to inflation, but it's the same physical sum. A pension can't even guarantee that. It comes across as pie in the sky frankly.
zarjaz1991 said:
Ok here's a simpler way to outline the problems.
People don't trust the pension providers or the government not to rip them off and destroy their life savings.
There. That's it in a nutshell. Address that and you solve a considerable number of the problems.
Im not disagreeing with you. Based on that. What is the plan to prevent yourself from being destitute when over 70 or working until the day you fall down dead?People don't trust the pension providers or the government not to rip them off and destroy their life savings.
There. That's it in a nutshell. Address that and you solve a considerable number of the problems.
craigjm said:
OK buddy so based on that, whats the plan?
There isn't one, beyond being opted into the workplace scheme as I stated.Most of my friends opt out of it because it isn't not seen as worthwhile, and thiose on low incomes simply can't afford it.
I'm on a reasonable-ish salary for my age so I can do it. However, rich people telling people on minimum wage to put a huge portion of their income into a pension, is always going to fall on deaf ears when you have rent and bills and council tax to pay. Reality time!
zarjaz1991 said:
Well I'm in a workplace pension, because I'm told it's sensible and so I've run with it. I have extreme doubts that it will even return what's been paid in. The employer contribution match appears to make it a compelling proposition, but I have my doubts about even that.
Frankly the whole financial industry - not just pensions - has a reputation for being a collection of huge legalised scams. Pensions specifically are made deliberately horrendously complicated to the extent that it feels like little more than "give us your money and trust us, we'll let you know how we got in at the very end".
Most people my age and thereabouts feel the same way....it's a scam disguised under complicated rules designed to flummox those without financial qualifications.
If I put my money in a bank, I am guaranteed to at least get the same physical sum back, providing the bank doesn't go bust, and even then up to prescribed limits I am protected. It may be worth less due to inflation, but it's the same physical sum. A pension can't even guarantee that. It comes across as pie in the sky frankly.
Why don't you invest in cash within a pension and benefit from tax free growth and tax relief at source?Frankly the whole financial industry - not just pensions - has a reputation for being a collection of huge legalised scams. Pensions specifically are made deliberately horrendously complicated to the extent that it feels like little more than "give us your money and trust us, we'll let you know how we got in at the very end".
Most people my age and thereabouts feel the same way....it's a scam disguised under complicated rules designed to flummox those without financial qualifications.
If I put my money in a bank, I am guaranteed to at least get the same physical sum back, providing the bank doesn't go bust, and even then up to prescribed limits I am protected. It may be worth less due to inflation, but it's the same physical sum. A pension can't even guarantee that. It comes across as pie in the sky frankly.
Why don't you invest in fixed income bonds to match your retirement date to guarantee a fixed rate of return tax free and benefit from tax relief at source?
What happens if your pension provider goes bust - you never did explain?
What's complicated about a tax efficient wrapper?
Which pensions were 'raided', as you previously claimed?
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 20:39
zarjaz1991 said:
There isn't one, beyond being opted into the workplace scheme as I stated.
Most of my friends opt out of it because it isn't not seen as worthwhile, and thiose on low incomes simply can't afford it.
Is that 'not afford it' after going out every weekend, overseas holidays, new iPhones, Sky TV, new cars etc etc?!Most of my friends opt out of it because it isn't not seen as worthwhile, and thiose on low incomes simply can't afford it.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'm on a reasonable-ish salary for my age so I can do it. However, rich people telling people on minimum wage to put a huge portion of their income into a pension, is always going to fall on deaf ears when you have rent and bills and council tax to pay. Reality time!
Who is suggesting putting a 'huge proportion' of your income into a pension - where do you get that from?craigjm said:
Im not disagreeing with you. Based on that. What is the plan to prevent yourself from being destitute when over 70 or working until the day you fall down dead?
Well I'm actually in my employer's workplace scheme. Even that could leave me destitute.By the time retirement comes for me, retirement age will be past 80 anyhow, and the government will have come up with ways to siphon most of that meagre pension off. So destitution it will probably be.
I'm not on minimum wage, but for those that are, seriously, they don't have any choice in the matter. Pay the rent and food and bills, OR pay into a pension. That's the reality. That's why they all opt out of workplace schemes. I don't see these people leasing expensive cars, I don't see most of them in cars at all because they cannot afford it.
I really don't think those making the rules have the slightest concept what life is like on the breadline at the moment.
zarjaz1991 said:
However, rich people telling people on minimum wage to put a huge portion of their income into a pension, is always going to fall on deaf ears when you have rent and bills and council tax to pay. Reality time!
I don't disagree with that.You are lucky that you have a basic pension with your employer although I am skeptical that these new "workplace pensions" will be anywhere near sufficient. I think anyone under 45, including me, should really now be prepared for the fact that they will end up working longer than ever before and it will probably be normal to be still working at 70. The big problem with that of course is that without people at the end of working life retiring and freeing up jobs it will mean less employment for the young and less opportunities to progress in organisations as senior roles are vacated less frequently.
zarjaz1991 said:
Well I'm actually in my employer's workplace scheme. Even that could leave me destitute.
By the time retirement comes for me, retirement age will be past 80 anyhow, and the government will have come up with ways to siphon most of that meagre pension off. So destitution it will probably be.
I'm not on minimum wage, but for those that are, seriously, they don't have any choice in the matter. Pay the rent and food and bills, OR pay into a pension. That's the reality. That's why they all opt out of workplace schemes. I don't see these people leasing expensive cars, I don't see most of them in cars at all because they cannot afford it.
Why would you opt out of a non-contributory scheme?By the time retirement comes for me, retirement age will be past 80 anyhow, and the government will have come up with ways to siphon most of that meagre pension off. So destitution it will probably be.
I'm not on minimum wage, but for those that are, seriously, they don't have any choice in the matter. Pay the rent and food and bills, OR pay into a pension. That's the reality. That's why they all opt out of workplace schemes. I don't see these people leasing expensive cars, I don't see most of them in cars at all because they cannot afford it.
zarjaz1991 said:
I really don't think those making the rules have the slightest concept what life is like on the breadline at the moment.
Who is suggesting that people 'on the breadline' should be investing in pensions?Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff