Lease cars and lack of pension provision

Lease cars and lack of pension provision

Author
Discussion

NickCQ

5,392 posts

95 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
to be fair with all the banks and pension companies going tits up over the last 10 years + shoddy trading i'm shocked when i hear how much hard earned people are piling into pensions, with no guarantee they will get back what they've put in..
Which pension companies are you referring to?

The comparison with bank failures I think is not a good one given that with a bank deposit you are taking bank credit risk (above the state guarantee) whereas with a pension company you are just signing a contract for them to look after your assets and manage them.

NordicCrankShaft

1,719 posts

114 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
At the end of the day who really cares, it's their money and let them do with it what they want. I find it laughable when other people try to make out they're the bigger person because they don't have this and that on credit or lease.

It's like the old buy vs renting rubbish that gets spouted about on here time to time, yet the same people will be the ones putting their money into BTL's.

drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
stongle said:
Pension education is crap. Any vehicle that enables tax fee savings and potentially free money from your employer (matched contribution etc), or govt should be top of anyone's agenda. I started pension contributions at 23, now 42 the pot is >500k. Most of that was free money from employers.

In the main, people need this explaining to them but there are too many shouty idiots either end of the spectrum clouding the issue with noise.
I see you're in the SE.

Someone's estimated Dot Cotton's house is worth £875k.

Just out of interest, What would that shabby east end terrace have required to deposit zero on 20 years ago with a 100% 25 year mortgage the tenancy will have paid off by 2022 (when, no doubt, it'll be worth £1m+).?

And let's not even venture down "what could have also been done using the dump for a bit of leverage over the last 20" lest it becomes too shouty....

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
to be fair with all the banks and pension companies going tits up over the last 10 years + shoddy trading i'm shocked when i hear how much hard earned people are piling into pensions, with no guarantee they will get back what they've put in..
I'm shocked that people can be as ill-informed as you are and yet still feel compelled to respond on a specialist sub-forum. The key question is why would you be so keen to comment on something you clearly know nothing about?!

PixelpeepS3

8,600 posts

141 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
to be fair with all the banks and pension companies going tits up over the last 10 years + shoddy trading i'm shocked when i hear how much hard earned people are piling into pensions, with no guarantee they will get back what they've put in..
I'm shocked that people can be as ill-informed as you are and yet still feel compelled to respond on a specialist sub-forum. The key question is why would you be so keen to comment on something you clearly know nothing about?!
Wow - careful you don't disappear up there smile

So - can you guarantee me that i will get back at least every penny i put into any pension currently offered?

drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
to be fair with all the banks and pension companies going tits up over the last 10 years + shoddy trading i'm shocked when i hear how much hard earned people are piling into pensions, with no guarantee they will get back what they've put in..
I'm shocked that people can be as ill-informed as you are and yet still feel compelled to respond on a specialist sub-forum. The key question is why would you be so keen to comment on something you clearly know nothing about?!
Shocking isn't it? All these Fake News stories for the past decade creating all this needless scepticism about the efficacy of our proud capitalist bastions......

Crisis? WHAT crisis?

Collapse of the banking system and people's confidence in it? NEVER HAPPENED!

Holocaust? Commie scare story.....

And by the way, where do I get some of that "free money" companies are paying into pension contributions. I'll have some of that!

(Balanced perspective, old boy. Just chatroom opinionation. wink )

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
Wow - careful you don't disappear up there smile
Careful you don't respond on a thread were you actually understand what you are talking about!


PixelpeepS3 said:
So - can you garantee me that i will get back at least every penny i put into any pension currently offered?
It depends what you choose to invest in. But yes, with a very safe investment strategy, you could guarantee not only the contributions paid but tax relied and interest on top.

CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Well Green screwed up BHS pension by not paying in appropriate contributions didn't he? Then flogged it when it was impossible to retrieve. He took it from surplus to irretrievable deficit in 15 years.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
Well Green screwed up BHS pension by not paying in appropriate contributions didn't he? Then flogged it when it was impossible to retrieve. He took it from surplus to irretrievable deficit in 15 years.
No, he didn't. Investment markets took the fund from surplus to defect, despite employer contributions and the business simply wasn't profitable enough to make the increased contributions required to address the deficit in the short term. The same reason that numerous final salary schemes also moved into significant deficit over the same period.

None of which is relevant to the point being discussed!!

PixelpeepS3

8,600 posts

141 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
So - can you garantee me that i will get back at least every penny i put into any pension currently offered?
sidicks said:
It depends what you choose to invest in. (snip)
So, that's a no then.

Guess you have educated me on all i need to know. (think i had the same opinion before i took advice from an 'expert')


drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
So - can you guarantee me that i will get back at least every penny i put into any pension currently offered?
I can guarantee that you are not going to like what you discover when you study the little understood topic known as "how lifetime annuities work". laugh



sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
sidicks said:
It depends what you choose to invest in. (snip)
So, that's a no then.
Can you read?

I've highlighted the key words to help you...


PixelpeepS3 said:
Guess you have educated me on all i need to know. (think i had the same opinion before i took advice from an 'expert')
Some people are beyond education! And your opinion is still nonsense!

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
I can guarantee that you are not going to like what you discover when you study the little understood topic known as "how lifetime annuities work". laugh
The ones that pay an income for you lifetime?

Seems pretty obvious to me (and to most people).

PixelpeepS3

8,600 posts

141 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
So - can you guarantee me that i will get back at least every penny i put into any pension currently offered?
I can guarantee that you are not going to like what you discover when you study the little understood topic known as "how lifetime annuities work". laugh
that was the point i was trying to make. Why put money in when no one can guarantee getting at least what you put in, back. It's less risk putting money in the mattress !

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
that was the point i was trying to make.
No, you're making an entirely different point. It's still bks though!

PixelpeepS3 said:
Why put money in when no one can guarantee getting at least what you put in, back. It's less risk putting money in the mattress !
It can be guaranteed, as explained above. Sorry you can't understand the basics!

By the way, where is your list of 'banks and pension companies' that have gone bust in the last 10 years!!

Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 15:05

mike74

3,687 posts

131 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Sensible people: Income - savings/pension = money available to spend.

Idiots: Income - spending = money available for savings/pension.

Has been the case before leasing was even thought of.
Unfortunately it's the feckless, irresponsible, spendthrift idiots that are being encouraged, protected and rewarded these days, all at the expense of the sensible, prudent people living within their means and trying to make provisions for their future through pensions and savings.

PixelpeepS3

8,600 posts

141 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
sidicks said:
It depends what you choose to invest in. (snip)
So, that's a no then.
Can you read?

I've highlighted the key words to help you...


PixelpeepS3 said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
Guess you have educated me on all i need to know. (think i had the same opinion before i took advice from an 'expert')
Some people are beyond education! And your opinion is still nonsense!
I asked if you can guarantee, you said it depends.
my opinion is you risk getting less money out than you put in with some pensions - is that wrong?

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
PixelpeepS3 said:
I asked if you can guarantee, you said it depends.
my opinion is you risk getting less money out than you put in with some pensions - is that wrong?
It depends on what you invest in, as I already explained. Pensions are a wrapper, not an investment strategy.

Feel free to save money under your mattress as part of your retirement investment strategy though!
rofl

Still waiting to fund out which 'banks and pension companies' went bust in the last 10 years?


Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 15:13

CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
No, he didn't. Investment markets took the fund from surplus to defect, despite employer contributions and the business simply wasn't profitable enough to make the increased contributions required to address the deficit in the short term. The same reason that numerous final salary schemes also moved into significant deficit over the same period.

None of which is relevant to the point being discussed!!
We all know investment markets go up and down. When the fund started going negative he should have increased contributions to counter it. But he didn't. Instead he took 300 million out in dividends, so it was profitable enough. He never wanted to implement a recovery plan so it got worse over the years. Perhaps they should have closed the DB pension plan to new entrants when he purchased in 2000, (and increased contributions), but they (presumably) didn't.

I would say it is relevant as pixelpeep mention companies going tits up, which surely BHS and its pension is an example of. Like it or not that's the type of example that makes people distrustful of pensions.

PixelpeepS3

8,600 posts

141 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
sidicks said:
By the way, where is your list of 'banks and pension companies' that have gone bust in the last 10 years!!
here are some banks & building societies as for pension companies, i'll assume you think none of them went tits up in the last 10 years?

July 14, 2008   Alliance & Leicester
October 22, 2008  Barnsley Building Society
September 28, 2008  Bradford & BingleyD
June 7, 2008   Catholic Building Society
February 24, 2010  Chesham Building Society
September 8, 2008  Cheshire Building Society
September 8, 2008  Derbyshire Building Society
March 9, 2009   Dunfermline Building Society
September 18, 2008  HBOS
October 13, 2008  HBOS (up to 43.5% Bought)
October 13, 2008  Lloyds TSB (up to 43.5% Bought)
February 22, 2008  Northern Rock
October 13, 2008  Royal Bank of Scotland Group (up to 81.14% Bought)
November 4, 2008  Scarborough Building Society