Lease cars and lack of pension provision
Discussion
zarjaz1991 said:
This thread is increasingly convincing me of the merits of the 'shoebox under the bed' - or perhaps more realistically, a bog standard ISA. AT least they are (for the most part) not a scam and you are guaranteed at least the same physical sum of money back at the end.
Eh? Hate to tell you but that's another wheel spinner. No guarantees in that one either, bud. 
O. sorry. I take it you meant a cash ISA aka waste of time.
Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 19th February 23:15
CarlosFandango11 said:
Where did you get the transfer fee in your fictitious example? It wasn't made up by any chance?
By definition a fictitious example is made up.However, it's based on a real life scenario where a friend of mine was in exactly that scenario, was told they couldn't advice how much the admin fee would be until after the transfer, but that it might actually exceed the value of the amount being transferred.....which is just jaw dropping, frankly.
Might as well send them a blank signed cheque.
zarjaz1991 said:
How do you expect people to keep track of that?
Surely even the most simple IT worker can produce a basic spreadsheet summarising different pension fund investments that they hold?zarjaz1991 said:
£1000 here, £2000 there...and you can bet at maturity those same T&Cs will have some nonsense about minimum values and if it's any less you get nothing....wouldn't be in the least bit surprising....
I can guess you're wrong and making stuff up, because that's seemingly all you can do.zarjaz1991 said:
You also don't have much investment clout with a £1000 pension pot....
You're investing in a pooled fund, so that's irrelevant.zarjaz1991 said:
Oh and is there anything about 'if no payments are made for x years the entire value is surrendered'? I've seen crap like that in the past too.
Yes, of course you have, except of course you haven't, once again you're making absolute nonsense up over and over again.Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 23:15
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 23:24
drainbrain said:
Eh? Hate to tell you but that's another wheel spinner. No guarantees in that one either, bud.
Not to the same extent it isn't. You might get bugger all growth but barring catastrophe you will get back at least the same physical sum you put in.Might only buy a loaf of bread in forty years mind.
zarjaz1991 said:
If I am FORCED to join such a scheme - which is currently the case, except you can opt out (afterwards ! - you have to join and pay in first and then opt out and wait for the cash to repaid later - another scam I haven't touched upon) but it is widely expected the opt out will be removed once the scheme is fully operational - then yes I damn well do. They are already getting a hefty fee just for having the money in the first place! The money will need to grow extremely well just to stand still. I probably wouldn't object to a reasonable admin fee, but (in my fictitious example) £1400? They must've seen me coming.
This thread is increasingly convincing me of the merits of the 'shoebox under the bed' - or perhaps more realistically, a bog standard ISA. AT least they are (for the most part) not a scam and you are guaranteed at least the same physical sum of money back at the end.
Oh, so you know nothing about ISAs either? Why am I not surprised.This thread is increasingly convincing me of the merits of the 'shoebox under the bed' - or perhaps more realistically, a bog standard ISA. AT least they are (for the most part) not a scam and you are guaranteed at least the same physical sum of money back at the end.
I'd stick with that shoebox if I were you,
zarjaz1991 said:
sidicks said:
Why not?
How do you expect people to keep track of that?£1000 here, £2000 there...and you can bet at maturity those same T&Cs will have some nonsense about minimum values and if it's any less you get nothing....wouldn't be in the least bit surprising....
You also don't have much investment clout with a £1000 pension pot....
Oh and is there anything about 'if no payments are made for x years the entire value is surrendered'? I've seen crap like that in the past too.
This is the trouble...I don't trust these companies not to spring something like that on me.
sidicks said:
Yes, of course you have, except of course you haven't, once again your making absolute nonsense up over and over again.
You miss the point. I have no idea what's in dozens of pages of complicated financial jargon designed to scam people, which is what T&Cs really are. Not the financial industry is alone in this, insurance being a prime example.So if I suggest something might be there that isn't, it's because without paying a financial advisor a further shedload of money, I have no way of knowing.
Pay the financial industry a shedload of money, then pay us another shedload of money to explain the rules that apply to the first shedload...and you say this isn't a scam?
zarjaz1991 said:
Not to the same extent it isn't. You might get bugger all growth but barring catastrophe you will get back at least the same physical sum you put in.
Might only buy a loaf of bread in forty years mind.
Did you forget about the charges? Might only buy a loaf of bread in forty years mind.
(no-one escapes the Spanish Inquisition)
zarjaz1991 said:
CarlosFandango11 said:
Where did you get the transfer fee in your fictitious example? It wasn't made up by any chance?
By definition a fictitious example is made up.However, it's based on a real life scenario where a friend of mine was in exactly that scenario, was told they couldn't advice how much the admin fee would be until after the transfer, but that it might actually exceed the value of the amount being transferred.....which is just jaw dropping, frankly.
Might as well send them a blank signed cheque.
How about providing a real example including fund value and details of how your friend went to see about transferring?
zarjaz1991 said:
You miss the point. I have no idea what's in dozens of pages of complicated financial jargon designed to scam people, which is what T&Cs really are. Not the financial industry is alone in this, insurance being a prime example.
You do realise that insurance is also part of the 'financial services industry'?zarjaz1991 said:
So if I suggest something might be there that isn't, it's because without paying a financial advisor a further shedload of money, I have no way of knowing.
Pay the financial industry a shedload of money, then pay us another shedload of money to explain the rules that apply to the first shedload...and you say this isn't a scam?
Why do you keep making stuff up, it's just making you look like a fool!Pay the financial industry a shedload of money, then pay us another shedload of money to explain the rules that apply to the first shedload...and you say this isn't a scam?
craigjm said:
Sometimes it is not a sensible investment decision to simply amalgamate your pension pots as you go along. You can, in some circumstances lose out that way. The DWP have a pensions tracing service to help you find any pots that you may have lost sight of.
Fair enough, but is that a further argument against the entire concept in the first place?Ordinary people going out to work day in day out generally have neither the time nor the financial competence for all this stuff. It's beyond them. It is certainly beyond me.
It is designed deliberately to confuse people.
I'm currently paying 5% of my salary into one of these things and frankly I may as well go down the bookies with it, for all the guarantees it has. At least I'd understand what was happening to my money! I daresay a huge number of people feel similarly.
zarjaz1991 said:
You miss the point. I have no idea what's in dozens of pages of complicated financial jargon designed to scam people, which is what T&Cs really are. Not the financial industry is alone in this, insurance being a prime example.
So if I suggest something might be there that isn't, it's because without paying a financial advisor a further shedload of money, I have no way of knowing.
Pay the financial industry a shedload of money, then pay us another shedload of money to explain the rules that apply to the first shedload...and you say this isn't a scam?
You could always look at the key features document for whichever product you buy...So if I suggest something might be there that isn't, it's because without paying a financial advisor a further shedload of money, I have no way of knowing.
Pay the financial industry a shedload of money, then pay us another shedload of money to explain the rules that apply to the first shedload...and you say this isn't a scam?
zarjaz1991 said:
Fair enough, but is that a further argument against the entire concept in the first place?
Ordinary people going out to work day in day out generally have neither the time nor the financial competence for all this stuff. It's beyond them. It is certainly beyond me.
Without doubt.Ordinary people going out to work day in day out generally have neither the time nor the financial competence for all this stuff. It's beyond them. It is certainly beyond me.
zarjaz1991 said:
It is designed deliberately to confuse people.
Particularly if you don't actually read any of the paperwork...zarjaz1991 said:
I'm currently paying 5% of my salary into one of these things and frankly I may as well go down the bookies with it, for all the guarantees it has. At least I'd understand what was happening to my money! I daresay a huge number of people feel similar.
I dare say there are other ill-informed people. I doubt they pretend they know it all, post on an Internet forum with nonsense claims and then expect sympathy.sidicks said:
Why do you keep making stuff up, it's just making you look like a fool!
What did I make up there? What do you do if you don't understand the T&Cs for a workplace pension? Which bit have I got wrong? Do you NOT go and see a financial advisor? Do they NOT charge for the work? Help me out here, which bit is wrong?CarlosFandango11 said:
You could always look at the key features document for whichever product you buy...
That isn't the terms and conditions you're agreeing to though. It even says so on the document! They are not the essence of the contract.The T&Cs are what you are agreeing to, they are the essence of the contract, and most people (myself included) have no clue what's in them, because even we read them, they don't make sense to anyone not versed in financial jargon.
sidicks said:
Particularly if you don't actually read any of the paperwork..
It's not about not reading it, it's about it being deliberately worded to be completely beyond the understanding of anyone not well versed in financial jargon...And I'm not after sympathy thanks. I have already stated I'm in one of these things already, for better or worse. I'm not backing out now.
zarjaz1991 said:
That isn't the terms and conditions you're agreeing to though. It even says so on the document! They are not the essence of the contract.
The T&Cs are what you are agreeing to, they are the essence of the contract, and most people (myself included) have no clue what's in them, because even we read them, they don't make sense to anyone not versed in financial jargon.
Have you read and understood the T&C for say a phone contract?The T&Cs are what you are agreeing to, they are the essence of the contract, and most people (myself included) have no clue what's in them, because even we read them, they don't make sense to anyone not versed in financial jargon.
sidicks said:
Have you read and understood the T&C for say a phone contracts?
do you read all the T&C's of everything you sign in minute detail? Microsoft and Apple could own everyones souls the number of times over the years you have been asked to agree to pages of conditions before using their software and most of us would be none the wiser.craigjm said:
do you read all the T&C's of everything you sign in minute detail? Microsoft and Apple could own everyones souls the number of times over the years you have been asked to agree to pages of conditions before using their software and most of us would be none the wiser.
Exactly my point - very few people bother with the T&Cs for what they buy, as they are importantly written using legal language.zarjaz1991 said:
What did I make up there?
What product had a clause that the surrender value was zero if you didn't make payments for a certain period?zarjaz1991 said:
What do you do if you don't understand the T&Cs for a workplace pension? Which bit have I got wrong? Do you NOT go and see a financial advisor? Do they NOT charge for the work? Help me out here, which bit is wrong?
You could call the pension company customer service line and ask for a summary of the charges under the contract.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff