Lease cars and lack of pension provision
Discussion
sidicks said:
Toaster said:
As a young guy for me a pension was not only next century it was next millennium so as far as I was concerned earning very little at the time there was no point in saving a tiny % of a tiny wage. Then things changed I went in to a company pension paid my dues and happy to do so, my pension which I have paid out of my wages in to stopped being a final salary scheme and a nice word conjured up called Care being "Career Avarage" so essentially my pension will be considerably reduced, one reason is so that shareholders can be paid dividends Doh!
Toaster said:
CARE schemes are not necessarily less generous than Final Salary schemes.
sidicks said:
Increases in longevity and reductions in interest rates mean that the typical DB scheme is now massive expensive (and has been for some time). If you are still in a CARE scheme then you are still massive lucky.
Toaster said:
Really? so my final salary would have paid out more than CARE and you think I am lucky, remember this is my money I have invested.
Toaster said:
Another thing that 'younger' people should understand is that whilst the older generation may own thier own homes many of us had two or three jobs and what is not often mentioned is the interest rate of around 17% was applied so no it wasn't easier or cheaper for the older generation.
Then there was the con of the endowment mortgage so may people were left short of paying off thier mortgage as the endowment didn't pay out. There are many people today who have 'cheap' interest only mortgages......with never a hope of clearing the capital they borrowed and that is a small time bomb waiting to go off. sidicks said:
No con, simply that the investment returns reduced significantly over time - as evidenced by the reduction from 17% to 5% (and lower) that you acknowledge above!!
Toaster said:
How these endowment mortgages were sold is the issue, nothing in my endowment mortgage said there would be a shortfall so try viewing this, Endowment mortgages: Legacy of a scandal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20858236
Toaster said:
So if your young <25 then save something regularly doesn't matter how small just do it. >25+ sort a pension its starting to get urgent, forget the lease car buy something cheap that gets you from A-B and reliable cars today even with high milage tend to be far more reliable than one that had done 30,000 miles 30 years ago
Good advice - sacrifices have to be made!Toaster said:
Its not just sacrifice but trying to help people young and old make sensible financial provision and that doesn't matter how small or large
Edited by Toaster on Sunday 19th February 19:15
sidicks said:
craigjm said:
Surely the sensible approach is a balancing act? not everyone can afford to shove loads into a pension and even if they did there is no guarantee of massive returns.
There is no guarantee of massive returns with any investment strategy - at least within a pension wrapper the returns benefit from tax relief and accumulate tax free...craigjm said:
I'm sure we all know of at least someone who saved and saved and saved for that golden retirement only to find either -
a) they didn't make it
b) they keeled over after about 2 years of retirement
c) somebody robbed the pension fund and they all ended up with f
k all
I guess its all down to how much you like to take risks and how much you live for today or a tomorrow which may never come
a) in which case their saved fund is available to dependantsa) they didn't make it
b) they keeled over after about 2 years of retirement
c) somebody robbed the pension fund and they all ended up with f
k allI guess its all down to how much you like to take risks and how much you live for today or a tomorrow which may never come
b) they can buy an annuity with a guarantee or choose not to annuitise at all
c) except the DB pension falls into the PPF and 90% of benefits are provided
Most importantly, we shouldn't confuse the vehicle used to save for retirement and the strategy to provide income whilst in retirement!
Then the abc replies.
a)True, the saved fund is available to dependants. Like a car you saved up for over 30/40 years but you died on the way to the showroom to collect. Never mind. Your wife or kid can always have it. Great answer. And anyway, isn't that what the Life Insurance is for? The honest answer is that saving up for something you die before you collect renders the saving process pointless.
b) Annuity is a brilliant business to be in. Just brilliant. But you've bullseyed the obvious and of course largely unmentioned flaw in it. If you want a bitter sort of laugh, have a look at the reality of 'guaranteed annuities'. Unfortunately us boomers didn't used to have any choice in the matter. Annuity or guaranteed annuity. And I am grimly determined to live till I'm 80 - longer than anyone in my family has ever lived - in order to basically get back what I paid for the annuity. Then apart from what it's made them already, the insurance company get the pot to keep and profit from forever. Sid might try to tell you that the insurer just sticks the cash in a cupboard and that they could even lose if you live long enough because what you get reduces the pot by the amount they pay you. And of course if you happen to have arrived fairly recently in a big bendy fruity boat (or are young) you might believe that. Do you?
c) What Sid could have told you is that these DB company pension schemes have largely ceased or will be ceasing. It's a long - and not entirely pleasant -story why, but basically they are unworkable. They are being substituted by DC schemes. This is how they work. You pay some of your salary into it. The company you work for pays some of your salary into it. The "trick" (tho it is not always a trick because the adepts negotiate it as part of their salary package) is to have the recipient believe that this is somehow money-for-nothing. It isn't. It is part of your emolument for working for the company. Sid will (rightly) tell you that technically this isn't salary. He's right. It's salary-in-another-form. If pressed he will agree that it is a reward from the company for the work you do. Like your salary is.
There are very good pension schemes. Especially civil service schemes. And most especially of all MP's pension schemes (funny that, eh?). There are also individuals with sometimes high investment skills who can make the pension system work very well for them. But the whole private pension system depends entirely on the skills (or I suppose good fortune) of the investor handling the assets within the scheme. Apart from that it depends on what you can afford to fund it with. I'm afraid the benefits of pensions are very biased towards those best able to fund them.
I'd take issue with you on the "entitlement" thing. The 'fault' there doesn't lie with the people who feel entitled. It lies with the previous generation who didn't feel obliged to provide for the next generation what they are quite right in my opinion to feel entitled to. Of course our kids are entitled to something better than we've got. Is it really hard to see why?
craigjm said:
OK much like most millennials then. The way to change that is not to aggressively shoot him down and post loads of rolling laughing smilies at his points. All that will do is reinforce what he already thinks.
This is the sort of person you're dealing with:zarjaz1991 said:
I have never not been annoying in my entire life, I've certainly no intention of starting now....
He's joined a thread to deliberately post misleading information and disrupt the thread.sidicks said:
craigjm said:
OK much like most millennials then. The way to change that is not to aggressively shoot him down and post loads of rolling laughing smilies at his points. All that will do is reinforce what he already thinks.
This is the sort of person you're dealing with:zarjaz1991 said:
I have never not been annoying in my entire life, I've certainly no intention of starting now....
He's joined a thread to deliberately post misleading information and disrupt the thread.sidicks said:
He's joined a thread to deliberately post misleading information and disrupt the thread.
Did I? Oh good, glad you've decided that.Now, why don't you tell us all exactly what happens if your pension provider goes bust, because you're NOT guaranteed not lose any money are you? Let's be honest about this.
And of course the government can take your pension money. Just because they call it "changes to taxation", it doesn't make it any different. If they put income tax up they still take more of my money, it's still a taxation change and pensions are no different. They can raid them whenever they like.
craigjm said:
So what is the best way to deal with that do you think?
They have no interest in listening to the facts, so that's not an option. The facts have been discussed on numerous occasions and still we get nonsense like this posted. Drain brain just adds his misleading nonsense and the whole thread is spoilt.It happens over and over again.
Some idiots frequent over and over again with his lies - drainbrain for example.
Others just turn up briefly to post nonsense and then soon disappear - PixelpeepS3 and zarjaz1991 are today's examples.
Maybe it's something to do with half term and they'll be back to school soon.
zarjaz1991 said:
Did I? Oh good, glad you've decided that.
Now, why don't you tell us all exactly what happens if your pension provider goes bust, because you're NOT guaranteed not lose any money are you? Let's be honest about this.
So money in unit-linked DC pensions isn't protected at all. Really?Now, why don't you tell us all exactly what happens if your pension provider goes bust, because you're NOT guaranteed not lose any money are you? Let's be honest about this.
zarjaz1991 said:
And of course the government can take your pension money. Just because they call it "changes to taxation", it doesn't make it any different. If they put income tax up they still take more of my money, it's still a taxation change and pensions are no different. They can raid them whenever they like.
In that case you might as well argue that the government can do anything they like at any point in time in the future and therefore there is no point in planing anything ever. It's a nonsense argument.Edited by sidicks on Sunday 19th February 19:30
sidicks said:
In that case you might as well argue that the government can do anything they like at any point in time in the future and therefore there is no point in planing anything ever. It's a nonsense argument.
Well they can and do, pensions were r.a.i.d.e.d not so long back. It's not like I'm suggesting something outlandish that's never happened before.As soon as they think the "pot" is big enough, they will raid it.
[edited because this ancient iPad refuses to let me type RAIDED and insists on changing it to raised.]
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 19th February 19:35
The problem with financial "facts" are -
Nobody has a crystal ball and can see into the future
Nobody can predict with any level of certainty how someones fund may or may not perform
We have no idea when our time is up
We may not have "dependents to hand things on to" or feel like we want a compromised life just to help someone else
etc etc
There is only one fact that we can all be sure of and that is that we are going to die at some time not yet determined. Could be tomorrow, could be in 70 years time.
Now what we can do is offer advice and guidance and backed up concrete illustrations to help people in their decision-making process. To do that though you have to have the ability to see life from someone else's eyes and first ask what is important to them and what do they want to achieve.
Yes people need to save for their retirement thats a given but there are many options to when and how
Nobody has a crystal ball and can see into the future
Nobody can predict with any level of certainty how someones fund may or may not perform
We have no idea when our time is up
We may not have "dependents to hand things on to" or feel like we want a compromised life just to help someone else
etc etc
There is only one fact that we can all be sure of and that is that we are going to die at some time not yet determined. Could be tomorrow, could be in 70 years time.
Now what we can do is offer advice and guidance and backed up concrete illustrations to help people in their decision-making process. To do that though you have to have the ability to see life from someone else's eyes and first ask what is important to them and what do they want to achieve.
Yes people need to save for their retirement thats a given but there are many options to when and how
Toaster said:
Really? so my final salary would have paid out more than CARE and you think I am lucky, remember this is my money I have invested.
Depending on the terms it is quite possible for a CARE scheme to pay out more than a Final Salary scheme.
What contribution do you make to your scheme?
Toaster said:
How these endowment mortgages were sold is the issue, nothing in my endowment mortgage said there would be a shortfall so try viewing this, Endowment mortgages: Legacy of a scandal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20858236
zarjaz1991 said:
Well they can and do, pensions were raised not so long back. It's not like I'm suggesting something outlandish that's never happened before.
As soon as they think the "pot" is big enough, they will raid it.
Eh, what on earth are you talking about?As soon as they think the "pot" is big enough, they will raid it.
What 'pensions were raised' not so long ago?
Sid, not agreeing with your drivel (which TOTALLY and I mean TOTALLY lacks empathy with anyone other than those who swallow your drivel whole) means you have to launch into aggressive and even personal attacks on them.
Wake up! You are DOGMATIC!! The only thing your views are to be respected on are the technicalities of the pension, and even then it leaves a good bit to question. The rest of it is your OPINION about pensions. Of course you are entitled to one. But so is everybody else. So if someone says 'pensions - the very idea makes me suicidal' then suck it up. It's their opinion. Maybe it's right for them. Maybe it'll inspire them to - I don't know - write an era defining pop song or make a worldwide viral app which leaves them never having to work again!
You've such a closed mind that it would take dynamite to open it up a bit. But you're actually letting it spoil your fun - and to the point where you're BECOMING the flipping' fun. Don't do that to yourself. Play nicer. Humour us fools. "out of the mouth of babes" and all that.
Personally I find something interesting, amusing and even worthwhile thinking about in almost everyone's posts. Of course when they come down to "he's an idiot. He's a liar" it kind of goes off message. And if that's all you've got then you should really take a look at yourself, tho I think you're worth a lot more than that.
Also, this isn't a gathering of parliamentary draughtsmen working on a white paper or Cambridge researchers developing a publishable thesis. It's a flipping motoring site chatroom. All ages all races all classes all educations and all shades of opinion.
Chill, blud, or you're going to give yourself an aneurism before you drawdown that pension you've been saving in for so long! And that would never do, would it?
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/donkey-his-carrot-...
Wake up! You are DOGMATIC!! The only thing your views are to be respected on are the technicalities of the pension, and even then it leaves a good bit to question. The rest of it is your OPINION about pensions. Of course you are entitled to one. But so is everybody else. So if someone says 'pensions - the very idea makes me suicidal' then suck it up. It's their opinion. Maybe it's right for them. Maybe it'll inspire them to - I don't know - write an era defining pop song or make a worldwide viral app which leaves them never having to work again!
You've such a closed mind that it would take dynamite to open it up a bit. But you're actually letting it spoil your fun - and to the point where you're BECOMING the flipping' fun. Don't do that to yourself. Play nicer. Humour us fools. "out of the mouth of babes" and all that.
Personally I find something interesting, amusing and even worthwhile thinking about in almost everyone's posts. Of course when they come down to "he's an idiot. He's a liar" it kind of goes off message. And if that's all you've got then you should really take a look at yourself, tho I think you're worth a lot more than that.
Also, this isn't a gathering of parliamentary draughtsmen working on a white paper or Cambridge researchers developing a publishable thesis. It's a flipping motoring site chatroom. All ages all races all classes all educations and all shades of opinion.
Chill, blud, or you're going to give yourself an aneurism before you drawdown that pension you've been saving in for so long! And that would never do, would it?
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/donkey-his-carrot-...
Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 19th February 19:47
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