Bitcoin et al

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anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Wonder if anyone is investing in Bitcoin and Crypto Coins, there are quite a few hedge funds invested. it does seem like the beginnings of nearly mainstream acceptability and the tech is starting to filter into mainstream companies.


davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
It's big in China, mainly because it's effectively a black market currency.

Bitcoin isn't likely to be used meaningfully in big business, but the blockchain technology that stands behind it has a chance to revolutionise contracts and payments. I had a long conversation about it with someone at work last week and didn't understand a word of it so it must be good. biggrin

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
I've learnt a lot in the last few months, Etherium seems to be the one that offers a list of functions and platforms and with mainstream backing.
I am looking long term really, bitcoin could potentially come a storage of wealth.
The only thing is China has a big control, but when the exchanges were stopped market volume didn't drop as much as expected, which is a good thing really i think.


Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Chinese exchanges weren't stopped. They had KYC & AML implemented by govt regulators and removed 0% fee trading. This eliminated a vast amount of fake wash trade at a stroke. Chinese influence is more to do with the Bitcoin mining process which requires considerable computing power. Mining pools have been setup in China close to power stations where the required watts are tapped cheaply via underhand deals with power station maangement.

The key factor for Bitcoin volatility is an impending decision on an ETF run by the Winklevoss twins (the inventors of Facebook). They've been going through regulatory ping pong for a few years and may well get approval this time round. Or not. Regardless, Bitcoin is almost certainly here to stay and is already a store of wealth, albeit a volatile one.

As for alternative cryptocurrencies, there are many hundreds of them. Some have compelling aspects but most have and will continue to fall by the wayside. It's a penny share market for most. Ethereum is interesting because of the incorporation of contracts in the chain, but it is not unique in that respect. Such contracts can be created on Bitcoin itself & much work is underway in this regard.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
Chinese exchanges weren't stopped. They had KYC & AML implemented by govt regulators and removed 0% fee trading.
https://www.ft.com/content/415bf86c-ef67-11e6-930f-061b01e23655

''Major Chinese bitcoin exchanges halt withdrawals after crackdown''

''In nearly identical statements late on Thursday, OKCoin and Huobi.com, the two largest exchanges by trading volume during the past six months, announced that they were halting bitcoin withdrawals from their platforms''


I am going to aim to invest/gamble some money as it is quite interesting long term, a few thousand.

Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
The Spruce goose said:
''In nearly identical statements late on Thursday, OKCoin and Huobi.com, the two largest exchanges by trading volume during the past six months, announced that they were halting bitcoin withdrawals from their platforms''
The exchanges were not halted and people were not prevented from withdrawing their cash. Only BTC withdrawals were suspended. In addition, the trading volumes were largely fake, so they were not in fact the largest exchanges by a long shot.

If you do buy, I would advise keeping the coins in your own secure wallet rather than leaving them at an exchange where you will be exposed to potential weakness. They are getting stronger and becoming more stable over time, but their codebases and storage processes are subject to attack from third party actors, just like traditional banks are.

rufusgti

2,528 posts

191 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Behemoth, could you expand on the winklevoss brothers involvement and what they are trying to do. Will this have an effect on the price if it is passed.

Also, which bitcoin wallets do you recommend for someone with little computer knowledge (who somehow ended up in bitcoin a few years ago). I often look into it due to the worry of accounts getting hacked on exchanges or exchanges going bang like MTgox did and took my money with it. But I always come back to thinking I'm more likely to lose them that's they are due to my computer illiteracy.

One more question. Bitcoin to gbp did so well last year due to the falling pound. Which exchange would you suggest for selling coins when the time is right.

Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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rufusgti said:
Behemoth, could you expand on the winklevoss brothers involvement and what they are trying to do. Will this have an effect on the price if it is passed.
They have applied for an exchange traded fund (ETF) in the US. It would be the first regulated by the SEC in the US which would signal a major shift in acceptance. It would enable retail and institutional investors to add bitcoin to their portfolios with relative ease through a traditional instrument.

One of the exchanges, BitMex, is running a futures contract on the ETF approval, which usefully shows market sentiment. The likelihood of approval this estimates is 39% with a range of 38-50% since launching a couple of weeks ago.

If it is approved, BTC will ascend very rapidly before settling to its previous slower upward long term trend. If it is rejected, BTC will drop before settling some weeks/months afterwards to its previous upward long term trend. ETF rejection can happen anytime up to Mar 11. iirc approval is tacit - ie it is de facto approved after Mar 11 if it is not rejected.

rufusgti said:
Also, which bitcoin wallets do you recommend for someone with little computer knowledge
Even easy wallets remain a little tough for anyone unwilling to invest a bit of time into learning the ropes but there are plenty of simple guides around to help. The Trezor hardware wallet is well regarded and for a software solution, I'd suggest Multibit. Whether using hardware or software, follow all the guidelines on security. Your end result should be that your coins are in secure cold storage. Cold means the wallet is completely disconnected from the internet.

rufusgti said:
One more question. Bitcoin to gbp did so well last year due to the falling pound. Which exchange would you suggest for selling coins when the time is right.
The answer to that changes from time to time and depends on the amount you want to sell and what fiat currency you want to land in. Liquidity into GBP isn't great at the best of times. Today, your choices are Kraken & Coinbase or pay a premium and sell through a broker.

stongle

5,910 posts

161 months

Tuesday 28th February 2017
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Behemoth said:
A lot .
Cut down to save space, please don't be offended.

Maybe you could help with more details, but isn't the Winklevoss ETF is going to be limited to $100m? Or is this likely to be the first of many tranches?

I can't see many getting in the first rung, its chicken feed in the scheme of things. I'm assuming this can only be a physically backed ETF and not leveraged (at this stage). Also is there any limitation on withdrawals?

These aren't to catch you out, genuinely interested. Dabble a bit in Ether and speak to the guys at DAH a bit with DLT strawman prototypes in FS.

Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Tuesday 28th February 2017
quotequote all
stongle said:
Behemoth said:
A lot .
Cut down to save space, please don't be offended.

Maybe you could help with more details, but isn't the Winklevoss ETF is going to be limited to $100m? Or is this likely to be the first of many tranches?

I can't see many getting in the first rung, its chicken feed in the scheme of things. I'm assuming this can only be a physically backed ETF and not leveraged (at this stage). Also is there any limitation on withdrawals?

These aren't to catch you out, genuinely interested. Dabble a bit in Ether and speak to the guys at DAH a bit with DLT strawman prototypes in FS.
I have no idea what you are quoting. You don't need to save so much space, it's the internet wink

It is the principle of acceptance that will create a fundamental market event, not the predicted incoming investment volumes. Yes, the fund will hold the underlying asset which is by nature not physical but digital.

Winklevoss ETF details are easily searched, including the SEC filings themselves. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in investing in it as I can easily hold BTC directly.

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Tuesday 28th February 2017
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Bitcoin bulls say the price could go to $50,000 by 2030, up from $1,000 today, as millennials shift to virtual currencies.

Bitcoin bears say the price is unlikely to ever go above $2,000 in the next 20 years, because nobody "owns" the currency, there is no central body or person to complain to when something goes wrong, and established central banks will legislate it away to irrelevance it if it ever becomes truly popular.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 28th February 2017
quotequote all
Winklevoss own 1% of all Bitcoins.


rog007

5,748 posts

223 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
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What!? spin

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
What a week, DASH coin has really moved, gaining around 100% in 7 days, standing at about 45 dollars a coin now from 15 dollars a month ago.

i am sticking to Ether, z cash and iconomi, which sounds an interesting investment proposal. the news next week will be interesting for bitcoin. so far in a week at about 10% increase on stake which is pretty good as i am playing it safe. will keep updated on progress, my aim is 10k gbp by end of year. (10 fold profit)

bloomen

6,857 posts

158 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
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rog007 said:
What!? spin
They bought 1% of all coins in 2012. Since then there are about 6 million more.

The way the ETF will work is that they sell shares in their 108,000 coins so in theory there won't be a market effect, but of course it'll initiate a pump if it passes.

Once the shares for their coins are sold then they have to buy more.

There's a vast amount of speculation as to whether it'll pass. I personally think Bitcoin itself will be the sticking point.

If the Winklevoss ETF is refused, there are two more ETF applications from SolidX and GBTC. I don't know if their applications can be extended. The Winklevoss one was extended twice. There must be a decision by March 11th.

Edited by bloomen on Thursday 2nd March 00:09

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
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WitnessProtection said:
The Spruce goose said:
What a week, DASH coin has really moved, gaining around 100% in 7 days, standing at about 45 dollars a coin now from 15 dollars a month ago.
Guess when I sold the (few) DASH I was dabbling with? Bugger! Anyone know why it's suddenly taken off?
New distribution channels opening up Dash to more buyers and sellers. Dash still a long way behind Bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/wall-of-coins-integ...

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
quotequote all
Seems a bit fishy, a crap presentation and a few markets in Africa opening up for small fry. Basically someone with a lot if btc pumped the price up.

On one of the forums someone put 35k USD into dash never done it before, it was/is like a mania.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 2nd March 11:17

Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
quotequote all
I seem to remember reading the Dash creator somehow "messed up" the initial code and "accidentally" ended up with ~1/3 of all coins before the thing was even launched.

So many of these alternatives to bitcoin are suspicious in their security, governance & code resilience. Invariably they exponentially drop in value or, worse, fall off a cliff when hacked. I wouldn't advise investing in anything without researching & understanding well beforehand. A whim, hearsay & gamble are really asking for trouble.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
quotequote all
he pre-mined 3 million, but I see no difference to Satoshi Nakamoto mining 1 million straight away.


Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
quotequote all
The Spruce goose said:
I see no difference to Satoshi Nakamoto mining 1 million straight away.
Different era, where governance & watchful eyes were not the order of the day. First mover invention & testing of a radical innovation were.