Need money advice for the in-laws
Discussion
Regular poster but I could do with the anonymity at the moment, I hope the mods understand.
TL:DR - In laws own their own house but have no income and soon no money. Pension pot is empty. How can they get money?
Right I'll just say it - My in laws are running out of money.
They retired early about 15 years ago, they're about 60 now, bought a farmhouse with land outright (I believe) and calculated they'd be OK. They are not.
MIL has filled the house with animals (we're talking 12-15 dogs, similar cats, mostly feral, there are chickens, geese, god knows what else)
They cost a fortune. If you couldn't tell already, she's also a hoarder. They have a small industrial unit on the land which is full of s
te. I'm talking worthless cars buried under mattresses. Half a dozen broken microwaves.Anything in the house gets covered in animal stink or eaten, so they have very little of value, and the best thing that could happen to that house is burning down. FIL can't cope with the upkeep. There's a brother in law who has Aspergers and an 18 year old sister in law that is just finishing college that also live there. Naturally, it has fallen to me and my partner to sort this s
t out.FIL is aware of the situation, and though he's buried his head in the sand a bit (his words were "I should have had this conversation 5 years ago"). They need to downsize (obviously) and he realises this. The MIL will be the biggest issue. The blame game helps no one, being fair she's the one that's tramming through the savings, he's the one that's not put a stop to it earlier. To add icing onto a big turdy cake, they don't like each other so if he does say anything "Oh, that's just Steve being a mean d
head again".Getting MIL to get rid of the animals will probably destroy her, but that's what she needs to do. So that "intervention" is going to be a barrel full of laughs.
So far the plan is:
Sit down with FIL and go through exactly what is left. Is it a case of "I thought it would last another 20 years, but it looks like at this rate it will only last another 10" or is it "we will run out of money by this time next year". I'm hoping for the former, but I suspect that was probably the case 5 years ago, and we're staring right down the barrel of number 2.
Work on MIL to get rid of the animals. This will be awful and she'll hate us for it for years. But it has to be done. Maybe she can keep a favourite dog.
Try to get MIL to stop buying "bargains". "It was ten useless pieces of b
ks for a fiver - it's 3 quid just for one!" You didn't need the first one, let alone the other 9. See above about hating us for years. I'd like to get her to see a therapist, but there's more chance of me growing another b
k than that happening.Sell the house + land. Depending on timescale it would be good if they could get planning permission for a couple of houses on there. Might be more value for a developer to buy.
Move somewhere smaller.
I'm hoping if they can stay thrifty they can use the difference to tide themselves over until state pension age. If there's enough difference, maybe even get a buy to let or something as an extra bit of income?
Are there any avenues we should be exploring? Are there benefits they could look into? Anyone that can help? We'll be calling the money advice service this week. I don't think they've got any debts. Not many anyway, so I don't see how something like bankruptcy would help.
They're both pretty much unemployable.
I'm really not looking forward to this. At all.
I would love it to be as easy as saying no, you've dug yourself into this hole, have fun guys, but they're still her parents and FIL's asked for our help. To be clear, we're willing to help them help themselves, we're not doing it for them. And there's no question of financial help from our side, we have our own bills.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
WorrierT140 said:
Naturally, it has fallen to me and my partner to sort this st out.
Why? They are grown adults, let them sort their own mess out. Keep your beak out of their marriage / finances. t out.t really hits the fan when the options will be fewer. And because the OP is a responsible adult rather than someone who posts 300 messages a month being a contrarian twunt always taking a pop at people.PurpleMoonlight said:
Could they clear the industrial building and let it?
That is definitely something worth looking at. I think they will need to move eventually, but it could help buy more time or if they can split it off from the house land (they were originally separate) help towards income in the smaller house.PhilboSE said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
WorrierT140 said:
Naturally, it has fallen to me and my partner to sort this st out.
Why? They are grown adults, let them sort their own mess out. Keep your beak out of their marriage / finances. t out.t really hits the fan when the options will be fewer. And because the OP is a responsible adult rather than someone who posts 300 messages a month being a contrarian twunt always taking a pop at people.If you and your FIL can stand it, you need to go through a pretty rigorous income & expenditure assessment. Usually people fill these in when they are having debt trouble, but they are useful tools for anyone to make sure nothing gets forgotten. The CAB version is as good as any.
It's a great way of prompting conversations about what people are spending, and where savings might be made. On the income side, are your in-laws getting any kind of benefits or help with your BIL?
Good luck with the conversations, and well done for stepping up to this tough job.
It's a great way of prompting conversations about what people are spending, and where savings might be made. On the income side, are your in-laws getting any kind of benefits or help with your BIL?
Good luck with the conversations, and well done for stepping up to this tough job.
A difficult one to crack OP. My Dad is a real hoarder, I put it down to him being a child born in poverty during the war, he comes from the 'make and mend' generation and has to be forced to throw things away. My Mum is of the pound-shop-bargain-snapper-up mould, 'bargains' that she really doesn't need. I think it is ultimately because in retirement she is bored.
Sounds like you have quite a few dynamics going on here. The personal relationship between your MiL and FiL doesn't sound particularly good. I wonder (armchair psychologist alert) are they just putting up with each other because of the situation they are in, but both know they'd struggle to fend on their own without the other? The multiple animals thing jumps out at me - is your MiL substituing relations with animals over those with humans? I've got a 'crazy cat woman' type mental image. I'd imagine they cost a lot in upkeep, as you say cutting back to one dog would probably save a lot of money.
It is depressing to think of someone as unemployable at 60. I'm 45 and facing working to 70 unless I get a particularly lucky break. I've got no problem with that - I enjoy hard work - and much as I'd like to retire earlier, I've got no problems grafting. To have retired at 45 and 'let themselves go' to the point that nobody would want to hire them is a sad tale to hear. Not sure if renting their outbuildings would be a great idea - frankly they don't sound like business people with sufficient savvy to make that work. Sorry I can't offer much other help.
Sounds like you have quite a few dynamics going on here. The personal relationship between your MiL and FiL doesn't sound particularly good. I wonder (armchair psychologist alert) are they just putting up with each other because of the situation they are in, but both know they'd struggle to fend on their own without the other? The multiple animals thing jumps out at me - is your MiL substituing relations with animals over those with humans? I've got a 'crazy cat woman' type mental image. I'd imagine they cost a lot in upkeep, as you say cutting back to one dog would probably save a lot of money.
It is depressing to think of someone as unemployable at 60. I'm 45 and facing working to 70 unless I get a particularly lucky break. I've got no problem with that - I enjoy hard work - and much as I'd like to retire earlier, I've got no problems grafting. To have retired at 45 and 'let themselves go' to the point that nobody would want to hire them is a sad tale to hear. Not sure if renting their outbuildings would be a great idea - frankly they don't sound like business people with sufficient savvy to make that work. Sorry I can't offer much other help.
xjay1337 said:
I hasten to say, I agree with the above.
Very messy if you get involved. Maybe suggest they see a financial adviser and go back to part-time work.
As an in-law I'm definitely trying to keep out of it as much as I can. I'm there to support my Mrs while she is trying to deal with the family side of trying to get her mum to come round to it before there's no money to buy food. I also don't mind making suggestions, but I (and my other half) aren't going to babysit them through every transaction they make. Very messy if you get involved. Maybe suggest they see a financial adviser and go back to part-time work.
Hence the post on here. I know there are a lot of clever bods on PH that could maybe suggest something worth looking at/who to talk to that we can pass on, but they're grown adults, we can't make them do anything. Just give them their options and some emotional support if they need/ask for it.
To those thinking "well it's a problem of their own doing" - you are 100% correct, but that isn't helping them to get out of this mess. And believe it or not, my other half doesn't want to see her parents or siblings hit rock bottom. While there's still time, having been asked to help break it to MIL, we'd like to try and help THEM get THEMSELVES out of THEIR mess.
To be honest, I think you've given all of a right can of worms. All credit to you for taking it onboard but I fear we're also going to feel a bit scuppered by all this.
How about starting off with just a small bite out of the problem - your wife (their daughter) needs to have a very basic discussion with her mother about all the animals, how much they cost etc. At least it will then be clearer to see what should be the next stage.
I think this is going to have to be all taken in bite-size chunks if there's any hope of steady progress.
How about starting off with just a small bite out of the problem - your wife (their daughter) needs to have a very basic discussion with her mother about all the animals, how much they cost etc. At least it will then be clearer to see what should be the next stage.
I think this is going to have to be all taken in bite-size chunks if there's any hope of steady progress.
PhilboSE said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
WorrierT140 said:
Naturally, it has fallen to me and my partner to sort this st out.
Why? They are grown adults, let them sort their own mess out. Keep your beak out of their marriage / finances. t out.t really hits the fan when the options will be fewer. And because the OP is a responsible adult rather than someone who posts 300 messages a month being a contrarian twunt always taking a pop at people.
That's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.
Just a thought - but since there are so many animals, perhaps you could suggest rehoming them as part of a rescue centre operation.
This might make the in-laws get on board with the project. Get them enthused to tidy up/clear the homestead of rubbish - give them a sense of purpose and do good for the animal, they obviously love.
This might make the in-laws get on board with the project. Get them enthused to tidy up/clear the homestead of rubbish - give them a sense of purpose and do good for the animal, they obviously love.
I would think that you might be better off doing it in steps.
Step 1; Empty the industrial unit out and get it rented asap. That will make a start and get some money coming in.
Step 2; Inventory the animals, if several are old and not long for this world then perhaps you start by getting her to agree not to get more. Then rehome as many as you can get her to agree with. If she wants animals in her life (which is fair enough) you could suggest she volunteers at a animal shelter, looks after dogs on the weekends for people etc.
Step 3; Have a really good clear out. Can they rent a room, either to a full time lodger or occasionally via air bnb?
Step 4; Suggest they get a couple of part time jobs.
Step 5; If the son needs looking they might be eligible for the full time carer money from the Government.
Step 6; Some rent from the daughter once she's in employment would help.
Step 1; Empty the industrial unit out and get it rented asap. That will make a start and get some money coming in.
Step 2; Inventory the animals, if several are old and not long for this world then perhaps you start by getting her to agree not to get more. Then rehome as many as you can get her to agree with. If she wants animals in her life (which is fair enough) you could suggest she volunteers at a animal shelter, looks after dogs on the weekends for people etc.
Step 3; Have a really good clear out. Can they rent a room, either to a full time lodger or occasionally via air bnb?
Step 4; Suggest they get a couple of part time jobs.
Step 5; If the son needs looking they might be eligible for the full time carer money from the Government.
Step 6; Some rent from the daughter once she's in employment would help.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Why? They are grown adults, let them sort their own mess out. Keep your beak out of their marriage / finances.
yep this a thousand times over, they are only/nearly 60 you say? they should be able to work it out..stay clear because it will be your fault when it goes tits upYou know what the answer is, you explained it all in your original post but it sounds like neither of them want to do anything to improve their situation.
They want to carry on exactly as they are and have enough money for the rest of their lives magically appear. I wish I could retire at 45 and just assume I would have enough money to last me for the rest of my life.
Firstly they need to get rid of all the animals and get rid of the junk. Work out a budget and stop wasting money on things they don't need. Horror of horrors maybe even get a part time job?
If that still isn't enough then they are going to look at having to downsize like countless other retired people have to.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I have zero sympathy as they did it to themselves and in reality they know what the solution is but don't want to do anything about it.
They want to carry on exactly as they are and have enough money for the rest of their lives magically appear. I wish I could retire at 45 and just assume I would have enough money to last me for the rest of my life.
Firstly they need to get rid of all the animals and get rid of the junk. Work out a budget and stop wasting money on things they don't need. Horror of horrors maybe even get a part time job?
If that still isn't enough then they are going to look at having to downsize like countless other retired people have to.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I have zero sympathy as they did it to themselves and in reality they know what the solution is but don't want to do anything about it.
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