Care home - protecting assets

[egor110]

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

I'm agreeing with you £800 per week for a patient with advanced dementia is a very low figure.

We never went to a home offering one to one care , does it exist?

Neither has my other half who does this for a job , it just seems the more you pay the more quantity/quality of staff but never 1 staff member per resident.

[WinstonWolf]

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

I'm agreeing with you £800 per week for a patient with advanced dementia is a very low figure.

We never went to a home offering one to one care , does it exist?

Neither has my other half who does this for a job , it just seems the more you pay the more quantity/quality of staff but never 1 staff member per resident.

Yup, for patients in the latter stages of the disease it's necessary. The home my dad's in does it for a few of the patients who require it.

[egor110]

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

I'm agreeing with you £800 per week for a patient with advanced dementia is a very low figure.

We never went to a home offering one to one care , does it exist?

Neither has my other half who does this for a job , it just seems the more you pay the more quantity/quality of staff but never 1 staff member per resident.

Yup, for patients in the latter stages of the disease it's necessary. The home my dad's in does it for a few of the patients who require it.

Interesting,

My grandfather died last year and although he got a lot more attention near the end it was never one to one , plus by that time the family was there most the time anyway.

After last year i'd never begrudge my parent using all there money to pay for a nicer home .

[Robertj21a]

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

The £800 I mentioned was just to be in a reasonably good home (near the South Coast), with staff who seemed concerned. It did not include any special arrangements whatsoever. Other homes that were very much poorer, with few staff, filthy surroundings, smell of urine etc were still about £700 per week.

[FredClogs]

Thread not going to plan op? "The Norm" is that the house gets sold if you want decent care for elderly relatives.

My grandparents had some money in savings so could afford to get into a care home as a couple (they were both in their late 80s at this point, grandad loosing it mentally and grandma physically) and the house went on the market to rent, the rent would cover about 1/4 the care home costs, which it was figured would burn what they had within a couple of years. The care home was a good 'un and it cost a lot more than is being suggested here. My dad dealt with it really so I don't know the details.

Unfortunately they both passed within a year. It's not a situation with an outcome that's ever going to be optimal.

[egor110]

Robertj21a said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

The £800 I mentioned was just to be in a reasonably good home (near the South Coast), with staff who seemed concerned. It did not include any special arrangements whatsoever. Other homes that were very much poorer, with few staff, filthy surroundings, smell of urine etc were still about £700 per week.

The big thing to look out for is staff turn over and if there always advertising for staff.

The place my mrs works at the staff very rarely leave and when a vacancy does come up the manager has a list of agency who have worked there who've asked for a full time job similar story at the british legion home i deliver the post to.

[WinstonWolf]

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

egor110 said:

WinstonWolf said:

oyster said:

egor110 said:

Robertj21a said:

I think many who have been through all this in recent years, for parents etc, will have come to realise that there's no good solution.

You end up selling your house and then paying £800 per week for a reasonably good care home or you squander your money while you're alive and end up in a similar one (slightly lower standard) funded by the council.

The gulf between decent self funded homes and council funded is huge going by ny experience from last year.

You still haven't explained the difference (apart from a door alarm going off for 45 mins or so, and a jazz band).

Is that it? For £800 a week?

That's a low figure for care of someone with advanced dementia, someone who requires one to one care can easily pay double that per week.

That was the figure a year ago in somerset.

Nobody had one to one care , they were in a locked unit with a rotating team of staff looking after all the residents , nobody had like a personal chaperone.

I'm agreeing with you £800 per week for a patient with advanced dementia is a very low figure.

We never went to a home offering one to one care , does it exist?

Neither has my other half who does this for a job , it just seems the more you pay the more quantity/quality of staff but never 1 staff member per resident.

Yup, for patients in the latter stages of the disease it's necessary. The home my dad's in does it for a few of the patients who require it.

Interesting,

My grandfather died last year and although he got a lot more attention near the end it was never one to one , plus by that time the family was there most the time anyway.

After last year i'd never begrudge my parent using all there money to pay for a nicer home .

The place my dad is in cares for some extremely ill people, it's not as luxurious as his first home (think grand piano type place) but they weren't equipped to deal with his care needs.

Some of the patients are on one to one 24/7. The home is fantastic, he couldn't be in a better place IMO. It's eye-wateringly expensive, but there isn't anywhere else locally that can care for people in the advanced stages of the disease.

There's a woman in there with early onset-dementia, she's in her fifties and will spend the rest of her days in there. Her care is paid for by the state as she has no relatives and is in there based on medical need.

[Rangeroverover]

I love this stance, presumably your parents worked and saved and bought a house etc, if you do the same then you won't need their money. Both my parents ended up in care homes in excess of £1600 per week for over two years each. I do not resent the fact that I inherited less, I would have felt far worse if they had been in a low rent care home They also refused to do any tax planning so gave the government £600,000 that they could have very easily avoided.

Why do kids feel they have a right to inherit anything

[Robertj21a]

Rangeroverover said:

I love this stance, presumably your parents worked and saved and bought a house etc, if you do the same then you won't need their money. Both my parents ended up in care homes in excess of £1600 per week for over two years each. I do not resent the fact that I inherited less, I would have felt far worse if they had been in a low rent care home They also refused to do any tax planning so gave the government £600,000 that they could have very easily avoided.

Why do kids feel they have a right to inherit anything

Me, Me, Me syndrome - very noticeable in recent years.

[philv]

monoloco said:

I've gone through all this in the last few weeks so ignoring all the self-righteous claptrap on both sides for a moment, here's some accurate and up-to-date figures for nursing homes in the West Sussex area:

Nursing home charge for fully 'self-funding' resident ( ie anyone with cash or assets of more than £23,250) : £1022 PER WEEK. That's for a mid-range nursing home with a 'good' rating from the CQC. Figures I had quoted to me ranged from £800 for a dump with a poor CQC rating per week to £1400+)

Once the savings/assets fall below the £23,250 threshold he stays in the same nursing home, same room, same food, same staff etc but now qualifies for council support and the cost of the room falls to £822 per week. Thats made up of £576 from council, £156 from NHS (nursing support) and £100 per week 'top up' from the family (the top up has to come from family/friend as the resident is bizarrely not allowed to make the extra contribution himself from the remaining £23k). However, the £576 from the council is then recovered from his pension (state and private) of around £300 per week plus a forfeiture of money from his remaining savings so the council is actually contributing less than £200 per week.

So, while he's 'self funding' he is subsidising the 'council funded' residents to the tune of £200 per week. Once he's so called 'council funded' he still spends every penny of his pension, continues to munch through his own savings and the family have to find £450 per month from their own savings. That's after he's spent 50 years of his 90 year life paying taxes, rates, NICs etc. Where's the fairness in all that?

Great reply/nfo.
Thanks.

[Sheepshanks]

monoloco said:

I
So, while he's 'self funding' he is subsidising the 'council funded' residents to the tune of £200 per week.

Maybe it was different as he had little cash, but did own his own house which was going to be sold to pay for his care, but when my wife's Godfather went into a care home, the social worker doing the assessment said to arrange it through social services so that he'd only pay their rate.

In the event he died within a couple of weeks anyway.

[footnote]

TFP said:

philv said:

My father's share of the house will fund 3 years of base care home.
Which he would be in if he had no house etc anyway.

Moral?
50 years of saving etc for a house and paying his way.
3 years in an average care home and it's gone.
3 years that is possibly in a room next to someone who had nothing and tnerefore contributed nothing.
Not a simple moral argument either way.

I'm asking if tnere is a prudent way of planning ahead.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your Father. It's a truly awful thing.

However...

So everyone else pays more so you get an Inheritance ? Your parents get to see out their days in a low rent craphole so that you can get your money ?

How benevolent of you.

Please post your address so I can send you my tax bill.

Any deprivation of assets is going to look pretty cynical. Think on.

Gosh, I wish my parents and grandparents were still alive so they could refuse to pay the taxes which have contributed to the entitled generations of healthy, well-educated, sanctimonious pompous little pricks who think they're funding the entire fecking world rather than just making a contribution to maintenance of a world built by previous generations.

[TFP]

If only someone other than you understood this bile.

You're an intellectual Pygmy.

[otherman]

TFP said:

If only someone other than you understood this bile.

You're an intellectual Pygmy.

Don't understand the issues? Just throw in some personal insults.

[TFP]

otherman said:

Don't understand the issues? Just throw in some personal insults.

Wtf??

I don't understand his ambiguous post, with the exception of the bit where he threw in some personal insults.

Another member of the Pygmy brigade.

Off you trot.

[NickCQ]

Well this is becoming ugly.

I think there is another dimension to this for me, which that the primary source of wealth for a lot of older people in this situation today is not their lifetime savings but in fact their residential property investments.

Given that inflation in property prices of the last 30 years has acted as a massive transfer of wealth to those that already own property (more often than not the older generation), I am somewhat relaxed about about it being liquidated to fund care. It was never 'earned' in the first place, more akin to a lottery win based on postcode and when you bought your house.

[egor110]

NickCQ said:

Well this is becoming ugly.

I think there is another dimension to this for me, which that the primary source of wealth for a lot of older people in this situation today is not their lifetime savings but in fact their residential property investments.

Given that inflation in property prices of the last 30 years has acted as a massive transfer of wealth to those that already own property (more often than not the older generation), I am somewhat relaxed about about it being liquidated to fund care. It was never 'earned' in the first place, more akin to a lottery win based on postcode and when you bought your house.

Surely you could say the same about any savings/investment.

They bought there house when property was cheap , what's the difference between that and buying shares when there cheap and selling when they increase in value?

We have a major problem in this country in that although we've got the medical science to keep people alive longer were unable to fund the extra decades people now live for.

[philv]

TFP said:

If only someone other than you understood this bile.

You're an intellectual Pygmy.

It has already been pointed out very clearly by soneone in this thread that taking assets such as a house to pay for care is actually subsidising those that cannot pay.

So, why are you still here?
It has been quite a helpful thread, except for your nasty bile.

[egor110]

philv said:

It has already been pointed out very clearly by soneone in this thread that taking assets such as a house to pay for care is actually subsidising those that cannot pay.

So, why are you still here?
It has been quite a helpful thread, except for your nasty bile.

How so ?

You meet the managers in the decent homes and if your not self funded your simply not going to get a room .

[philv]

egor110 said:

philv said:

It has already been pointed out very clearly by soneone in this thread that taking assets such as a house to pay for care is actually subsidising those that cannot pay.

So, why are you still here?
It has been quite a helpful thread, except for your nasty bile.

How so ?

You meet the managers in the decent homes and if your not self funded your simply not going to get a room .

Council hme?
At the very least, you are not scrounging off tne state as was unpleasantly put forward.
It comes from pension, family payments, etc.
So to try and protect family assets isn't exactly tne crime alledged above.

Edited by philv on Sunday 26th March 14:25

Edited by philv on Sunday 26th March 14:26