Saving Money / Tracking Expenditure
Discussion
RichTT said:
Have a look at the Yolt app. Ive used it for about six months now. It analyses your previous spending and categorises based on different spendings. It will also learn as you adjust different items from say general to bills, or food, or transport. Easily allows you to see how much you are spending each month. It will also give you an estimated 'left to spend' amount based on upcommming bills etc. I've found it really handy as you can set up savings targets and the like.
The only setup needed is to link with your bank and set a date when you get paid. It pulls everything else for you so no fiddling about with inputting data into a spreadsheet
For me this would be ideal.The only setup needed is to link with your bank and set a date when you get paid. It pulls everything else for you so no fiddling about with inputting data into a spreadsheet
However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
IrateNinja said:
RichTT said:
Have a look at the Yolt app. Ive used it for about six months now. It analyses your previous spending and categorises based on different spendings. It will also learn as you adjust different items from say general to bills, or food, or transport. Easily allows you to see how much you are spending each month. It will also give you an estimated 'left to spend' amount based on upcommming bills etc. I've found it really handy as you can set up savings targets and the like.
The only setup needed is to link with your bank and set a date when you get paid. It pulls everything else for you so no fiddling about with inputting data into a spreadsheet
For me this would be ideal.The only setup needed is to link with your bank and set a date when you get paid. It pulls everything else for you so no fiddling about with inputting data into a spreadsheet
However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
I read an article about these types of apps and often they can be specifically prohibited by your Bank and therefore they can refuse to cover any losses as you have effectively given your access away.
+1 - I just would never link my bank to any third parties. (and I have been working in Software Testing and security for over 20 years). Nomatter how good they are now - you never know the vulnerabilities that will be exposed later.
Google Yahoo security breach (granted email not banking) for examples.
I use XLS - and have for many years. Update everyday (manually) from my official Banking Mobile app - takes 5 mins.
I manage the cash situation to within an inch of its life across 3 business accounts and 7 personal.
It really works - and is quick and simple to build and improve. You have total control.
Google Yahoo security breach (granted email not banking) for examples.
I use XLS - and have for many years. Update everyday (manually) from my official Banking Mobile app - takes 5 mins.
I manage the cash situation to within an inch of its life across 3 business accounts and 7 personal.
It really works - and is quick and simple to build and improve. You have total control.
Inspired by this thread, I reviewed the 'non-traditional banking' options that are out there now.
I've opened an account at Starling bank, a challenger bank - http://www.bankingtech.com/2018/01/uk-challenger-b...
Part of my thinking came from articles such as this - https://www.computerworlduk.com/data/lloyds-bank-p...
It's clear these start-up banking companies have an inherent advantage in being able to establish the foundation of a modern system, in not having the existing millions of customers for whom they must continue to provide uninterrupted service. Mobile-only current accounts won't be for everyone, and I won't be closing my established mainstream accounts.
However, the instant notifications of transactions and increased analytical data available is attractive to me. It may give me more understanding of my own habits. Starling have also got an API set up with Yolt, so no need to release any sensitive passwords or the like.
I've got into the habit of using a credit card for all day to day spending, but i may have to reconsider. I'm going to try it out for a month or two, and see how it goes.
I've opened an account at Starling bank, a challenger bank - http://www.bankingtech.com/2018/01/uk-challenger-b...
Part of my thinking came from articles such as this - https://www.computerworlduk.com/data/lloyds-bank-p...
It's clear these start-up banking companies have an inherent advantage in being able to establish the foundation of a modern system, in not having the existing millions of customers for whom they must continue to provide uninterrupted service. Mobile-only current accounts won't be for everyone, and I won't be closing my established mainstream accounts.
However, the instant notifications of transactions and increased analytical data available is attractive to me. It may give me more understanding of my own habits. Starling have also got an API set up with Yolt, so no need to release any sensitive passwords or the like.
I've got into the habit of using a credit card for all day to day spending, but i may have to reconsider. I'm going to try it out for a month or two, and see how it goes.
IrateNinja said:
Inspired by this thread, I reviewed the 'non-traditional banking' options that are out there now.
I've opened an account at Starling bank, a challenger bank - http://www.bankingtech.com/2018/01/uk-challenger-b...
Interesting that "Starling went through a major management change in 2014/15, when most of the team departed to set up rival Monzo"!I've opened an account at Starling bank, a challenger bank - http://www.bankingtech.com/2018/01/uk-challenger-b...
I guess those suggesting getting spending money out once a week or month and using that cash probably have the simplest mechanism....but then you have no tracking, no way to figure out where you chucked the cash if it runs out early. Moving that cash to cards like Monzo (& perhaps Starling, Revolut etc?) at least gives you that auto tracking.
That's an interesting idea being able to instantly see a breakdown of your spending, but it got me wondering, can something similar be done if using Android/Garmin/Apple pay with a normal bank account? As payments go through the phone app surely it should be able to log them, and give a similar breakdown, although you'd need to add any payments/deposits that didn't go though the phone system. A quick Google suggests both Android and Apple pay allows you to see your transaction history, but doesn't offer any analytics, which seems short-sighted.
All that current banks need to do is add category sorting onto their banking apps.
HSBC's app is already pretty good to use (took a while to get here though!) and if spending could be split into categories, it would basically kill off any of these data mining third party apps.
Dont see why they havent implemented this yet to be honest.
HSBC's app is already pretty good to use (took a while to get here though!) and if spending could be split into categories, it would basically kill off any of these data mining third party apps.
Dont see why they havent implemented this yet to be honest.
As I mentioned earlier, we use the Tesco credit card for the vast majority of our spending (because it generates Tesco points).
One of the unforeseen benefits of that card is the ability to download your transaction data in a variety of file formats. I use CSV and then open that with Excel. The resulting spreadsheet has a column with the store SICMCC code. For example Tesco stores has a code 5411 (as does Sainsbury, Lidl, etc) but their petrol stations are coded 5541 (as does BP, Shell etc). It's easy to then sort all grocery outlet spends, petrol spends, clothes retailers etc in the spreadsheet by these codes.
I suspect that it's this same coding info that these new banks are using to display spend by category on their phone apps.
I'd be interested in getting the data automatically on all our spend but have reservations about security as others have mentioned.
Having set up the system as described and used it now for a few years it really helps with budgeting on the family finances and it's easy to see trends and exceptions.
One of the unforeseen benefits of that card is the ability to download your transaction data in a variety of file formats. I use CSV and then open that with Excel. The resulting spreadsheet has a column with the store SICMCC code. For example Tesco stores has a code 5411 (as does Sainsbury, Lidl, etc) but their petrol stations are coded 5541 (as does BP, Shell etc). It's easy to then sort all grocery outlet spends, petrol spends, clothes retailers etc in the spreadsheet by these codes.
I suspect that it's this same coding info that these new banks are using to display spend by category on their phone apps.
I'd be interested in getting the data automatically on all our spend but have reservations about security as others have mentioned.
Having set up the system as described and used it now for a few years it really helps with budgeting on the family finances and it's easy to see trends and exceptions.
Thanks for the responses everyone. Far too many to quote.
I've taken a lot of comments on board.
I've updated my fixed outgoings on a Google Sheets document, it's mainly my irregular outgoings / weekly spending on food, petrol and lifestyle which I need to decide how to manage.
I've set myself some goals - predominantly reducing my fixed outgoings and managing my expendable outgoings.
I've downloaded a few app but as many of you have said, using an app which needs my bank account information makes me uncomfortable and is a no from me. So I'll try a simple spending app for next month.
The new Bank Accounts Monzo and Starling look great - this is something I need to look into, I'm currently with Barclays and have been for 20+ years and I have a joint account with NatWest - I'm underwhelmed with both banks so I don't mind switching. But I'm not sure how it'll affect my credit rating as this is something im trying to build too.
I've taken a lot of comments on board.
I've updated my fixed outgoings on a Google Sheets document, it's mainly my irregular outgoings / weekly spending on food, petrol and lifestyle which I need to decide how to manage.
I've set myself some goals - predominantly reducing my fixed outgoings and managing my expendable outgoings.
I've downloaded a few app but as many of you have said, using an app which needs my bank account information makes me uncomfortable and is a no from me. So I'll try a simple spending app for next month.
The new Bank Accounts Monzo and Starling look great - this is something I need to look into, I'm currently with Barclays and have been for 20+ years and I have a joint account with NatWest - I'm underwhelmed with both banks so I don't mind switching. But I'm not sure how it'll affect my credit rating as this is something im trying to build too.
The easiest way, and what worked for me was.
Open a second account with your bank, each month you transfer your spending money (food, fuel, fun) into the new account. You only carry a card for this account.
In you main account, you leave enough to cover Rent/mortgage/bills/phone/car whatever, all your fixed bills.
Setup a low balance alert on your spends account and under no circumstances have an overdraft.
Job jobbed.
People always over complicate it........
Open a second account with your bank, each month you transfer your spending money (food, fuel, fun) into the new account. You only carry a card for this account.
In you main account, you leave enough to cover Rent/mortgage/bills/phone/car whatever, all your fixed bills.
Setup a low balance alert on your spends account and under no circumstances have an overdraft.
Job jobbed.
People always over complicate it........
If your current account is always in credit then there won't be a problem in switching.
We have more than one current account as we take advantage of the interest paid on a Santander 123 account by transferring across £500 per month and a couple of direct debits to meet the criteria and keep the account topped up to the maximum that they pay interest on. Also transfer money from that into their regular saver account to earn 5% annualised interest.
This might be of interest to help you save.
We have more than one current account as we take advantage of the interest paid on a Santander 123 account by transferring across £500 per month and a couple of direct debits to meet the criteria and keep the account topped up to the maximum that they pay interest on. Also transfer money from that into their regular saver account to earn 5% annualised interest.
This might be of interest to help you save.
IrateNinja said:
For me this would be ideal.
However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
I get the hesitation. However being that it's encryption is on par with other international banking systems, and no log on information is stored on their servers I'm happy that it's unlikely to be a hacking target. Especially with such low user numbers it's going to be more financially viable for anyone to target a bigger bank. Alongside that anyone who might get access to my accounts cannot transfer anything without my card reader and card. At which point they would have to have cloned my card, known my pin, hacked the owners of the app and then somehow caught me logging in.all of this seems beyond the realms of possibility. However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
I would be happier if it was dealt with through an API system and hopefully that will come in the future.
Concern over data analysis of spending habits and the like is a different issue.
Bertrum said:
The easiest way, and what worked for me was.
Open a second account with your bank, each month you transfer your spending money (food, fuel, fun) into the new account. You only carry a card for this account.
In you main account, you leave enough to cover Rent/mortgage/bills/phone/car whatever, all your fixed bills.
Setup a low balance alert on your spends account and under no circumstances have an overdraft.
Job jobbed.
People always over complicate it........
Given the OPs last comment, I would do this, but with a different Monzo-style account for the 'spending money'. Open a second account with your bank, each month you transfer your spending money (food, fuel, fun) into the new account. You only carry a card for this account.
In you main account, you leave enough to cover Rent/mortgage/bills/phone/car whatever, all your fixed bills.
Setup a low balance alert on your spends account and under no circumstances have an overdraft.
Job jobbed.
People always over complicate it........
No need to full switch - personally I would NOT switch my main account to one that ONLY offered phone-style data! - but could certainly help with the tracking.
Why don't other banks offer those categories? Who knows - I imagine over the next 2-3 years we will see more of that sort of thing appear....but in the meantime, use the best tool for the job.
If or when you DO decide to switch, be sure to do it somewhere you can get other benefits. Eg, I recommended a relative move to Nationwide using the "recommend a friend" service, and we both get £100 ;-)
But don't switch too often, I'm sure that would raise red flags. Once every year or two is probably okay.....
RichTT said:
IrateNinja said:
For me this would be ideal.
However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
I get the hesitation. However being that THEY SAY it's encryption is on par with other international banking systems, and no log on information is stored on their servers I'm happy that it's unlikely to be a hacking target. Especially with such low user numbers it's going to be more financially viable for anyone to target a bigger bank. Alongside that anyone who might get access to my accounts cannot transfer anything without my card reader and card. At which point they would have to have cloned my card, known my pin, hacked the owners of the app and then somehow caught me logging in.all of this seems beyond the realms of possibility. However there's two reasons I won't be going for it (just now):
1. Cast iron privacy guarantees. I'm not interested in any financial information being shared with anyone else at all, ever. It does look powerful and I'd be open to paying a monthly fee to get the analytical tools.
2. Seems to get transactional data via screen scraping, after handing over online banking log on details. There's no way I'm handing those out, ever. If there was a way to issue 'read only' access from my bank then we can move forward.
I used to use an Amex card as my main spend during the month, which had real time notification of any transactions to my phone via their app. I don't get that on any other provider, which is a real shame as that was handy.
I would be happier if it was dealt with through an API system and hopefully that will come in the future.
Concern over data analysis of spending habits and the like is a different issue.
I use Monzo’s new debit card as my main bank card now.... Authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the PRA.
All done in the app, categorises all your spending which is extremely good and you can also create “money pots” where you can set aside money which won’t be spent off the card. Soon I’ll have my salary paid into it as well.
All done in the app, categorises all your spending which is extremely good and you can also create “money pots” where you can set aside money which won’t be spent off the card. Soon I’ll have my salary paid into it as well.
Best thing to do is to download the past years bank statements into Excel and work out exactly where your money goes. I suspect you spend way more money on drinks/coffee/lunch/meals out etc. than you think you do.
Personally I think it is pointless to save money when you have any sort of debt outstanding as you have not really got any savings you are just less in debt.
1)Pay off the credit cards and leave them at home.
2)Pay off any loans you have
3)make sure you are paying the lowest price for insurance/gas/electricity etc. cancel any unused gym memberships.
4)Have your banking app on your phone and check it daily.
5)Spend as little on lunches (take your own) coffee and eating out as possible.
I also try and spend nothing during the week, I go food shopping and fill up with fuel on a Sunday and then spend nothing at all until the weekend again.
Personally I think it is pointless to save money when you have any sort of debt outstanding as you have not really got any savings you are just less in debt.
1)Pay off the credit cards and leave them at home.
2)Pay off any loans you have
3)make sure you are paying the lowest price for insurance/gas/electricity etc. cancel any unused gym memberships.
4)Have your banking app on your phone and check it daily.
5)Spend as little on lunches (take your own) coffee and eating out as possible.
I also try and spend nothing during the week, I go food shopping and fill up with fuel on a Sunday and then spend nothing at all until the weekend again.
pseudonym said:
I'm in my early 30's and quite frankly I am terrible with money
Use jars , fuel/food/bills/fun , work out what you need to spend each week and allow yourself some fun money ( be generous with this pot ) , refill them all once per month , the surplus stick in an envelope and save it . ( big bills like mortgage etc use DD ) . The fun pot is important here , you might have a busy work week or two and forget this pot to then have 3 weeks fun money available to spend etc etc or you'll see the big pile of cash and think... i don't really want to spend it etc.After 12 months those envelopes might hold £1000's ( plus the surplus from your bank account you left alone ) .
P.S. After awhile you tend to guard these pots and think about spending and value and undo the swipe card mentality .
Edited by superkartracer on Friday 26th January 09:55
Joey Deacon said:
Personally I think it is pointless to save money when you have any sort of debt outstanding as you have not really got any savings you are just less in debt.
I hear what you're saying, however I have around £5k on a credit card at 0% interested for the next 23 months. I've got more than that in liquid savings earning interest in various accounts, plus my S&S ISA doing it's thing. In my view it would be daft to pay off that debt in total now when I'd be giving up a few hundred quid worth of interest in the next 2 years. IrateNinja said:
Joey Deacon said:
Personally I think it is pointless to save money when you have any sort of debt outstanding as you have not really got any savings you are just less in debt.
I hear what you're saying, however I have around £5k on a credit card at 0% interested for the next 23 months. I've got more than that in liquid savings earning interest in various accounts, plus my S&S ISA doing it's thing. In my view it would be daft to pay off that debt in total now when I'd be giving up a few hundred quid worth of interest in the next 2 years. The reverse also applies.
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