Car finance - hidden commission payments

[Chainedtomato]

Logged emails with the finance providers as I had 6 agreements in the timeframe being reported. Fantastic free tool from Martin Lewis to generate the email templates. Mine were all new cars with Ford/ VWFS and I read the paperwork throughly back to back before signing, but of course I may have missed something.

In the unlikely situation I’m owed something, then it was hidden in the paperwork in a way which I would call deceitful

[pork911]

Chainedtomato said:

Logged emails with the finance providers as I had 6 agreements in the timeframe being reported. Fantastic free tool from Martin Lewis to generate the email templates. Mine were all new cars with Ford/ VWFS and I read the paperwork throughly back to back before signing, but of course I may have missed something.

In the unlikely situation I’m owed something, then it was hidden in the paperwork in a way which I would call deceitful

Were you happy with the price on each of your 6 cars?

[pork911]

sugerbear said:

Fixed rate commission is fair enough (based on the size of the loan).

But the seller being able to set their own commission based on the % they can hawk to? That is outrageous.

Should prices be fixed by the state?

[funinhounslow]

Won’t most of those affected have financed second hand cars? On new cars isn’t the interest rate usually set out in advance in adverts and promotional material and therefore “set in stone”?

[phpe]

pork911 said:

sugerbear said:

Fixed rate commission is fair enough (based on the size of the loan).

But the seller being able to set their own commission based on the % they can hawk to? That is outrageous.

Should prices be fixed by the state?

No - they should be determined independently (as is now the case from 2021 onwards) by the finance company itself, and not by the hidden influence of the car dealer.

[Honourable Dead Snark]

Annoyingly I chucked documentation regarding a PCP from 2016 just a number of months ago thinking I no longer need it! Thanks to Martin Lewis’ tool though Santander and Black Horse should have the information based on the details I sent to them.

Plus the reg plate for one of the vehicles is no longer recognised and when checking the other, the vehicle was last taxed and MOT in 2018 so likely written off? Assume that shouldn’t impact the complaints…

[fourstardan]

Would you know by any wording on the finance agreement if they've added this hidden commission?

[phpe]

fourstardan said:

Would you know by any wording on the finance agreement if they've added this hidden commission?

Highly unlikely

Quote from the Martin Lewis website link: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/reclaim-...

The FCA estimates 95% of car finance deals had a commission model, and 40% the crucial ‘discretionary commission arrangements’. If yours did, and it wasn’t made clear – which it almost never was – we reckon you're likely to be entitled to money back when the FCA finishes its investigation and un-pauses complaints (scheduled for 25 September 2024, but may be extended). Check if it likely applies to you...

[Lreardon98]

I haven't read all the comments on this discussion but I thought it might be helpful to point out:

I saw someone point out that PSA finance were not on the list on the MSE template tool site.

For people who obtained finance from PSA, it may be helpful to know that in 2021, PSA Groupe (Peugeot, Citroen) merged with FCA (Fiat, Chrysler) to form Stellantis, and subsequently, Stellantis financial services.

You will note that Stellantis IS on the list on the MSE website.

In addition, if you go the Stellantis financial services website>>>FAQ's>>>Contact us>>>How do I make a complaint, and scroll down, you will see they have specifically made reference to the investigation ongoing with the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority - don't get mixed up with Fiat Chrysler).

Its interesting that in these comments, they do not mention that they definitely did not include discretionary commission payments in its financial services options.

Thus, I would (and I have) use the Stellantis complaints contact ([e-mail]) if you had a finance deal with PSA groupe prior to Sep-21.

If I haven't made it clear enough, Stellantis did not exist as a company prior to January 2021, so the fact they have not denied being involved in this mis selling indicates to me they are talking about PSA products as well.

[fourstardan]

phpe said:

Highly unlikely

Quote from the Martin Lewis website link: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/reclaim-...

The FCA estimates 95% of car finance deals had a commission model, and 40% the crucial ‘discretionary commission arrangements’. If yours did, and it wasn’t made clear – which it almost never was – we reckon you're likely to be entitled to money back when the FCA finishes its investigation and un-pauses complaints (scheduled for 25 September 2024, but may be extended). Check if it likely applies to you...

Thanks, I thought so as I couldn't see anything in the small print.

I should raise a case about a TT I bought in 2007 but it was so long ago I expect time has lapsed.

[phpe]

fourstardan said:

Thanks, I thought so as I couldn't see anything in the small print.

I should raise a case about a TT I bought in 2007 but it was so long ago I expect time has lapsed.

The time period from April 2007 to January 2021 seems to be the crucial period for the finance agreement to have been set up in for any possible complaint to be eligible

Edited by phpe on Thursday 8th February 19:52

[Chainedtomato]

pork911 said:

Chainedtomato said:

Logged emails with the finance providers as I had 6 agreements in the timeframe being reported. Fantastic free tool from Martin Lewis to generate the email templates. Mine were all new cars with Ford/ VWFS and I read the paperwork throughly back to back before signing, but of course I may have missed something.

In the unlikely situation I’m owed something, then it was hidden in the paperwork in a way which I would call deceitful

Were you happy with the price on each of your 6 cars?

Yes, I was happy with the deal on each of the 6 occasions so I proceeded.

That’s not the point though

[OddCat]

Chainedtomato said:

pork911 said:

Chainedtomato said:

Logged emails with the finance providers as I had 6 agreements in the timeframe being reported. Fantastic free tool from Martin Lewis to generate the email templates. Mine were all new cars with Ford/ VWFS and I read the paperwork throughly back to back before signing, but of course I may have missed something.

In the unlikely situation I’m owed something, then it was hidden in the paperwork in a way which I would call deceitful

Were you happy with the price on each of your 6 cars?

Yes, I was happy with the deal on each of the 6 occasions so I proceeded.

That’s not the point though

Would you have been happy to pay more for each car in exchange for a lower interest rate ?

[fourstardan]

fourstardan said:

Thanks, I thought so as I couldn't see anything in the small print.

I should raise a case about a TT I bought in 2007 but it was so long ago I expect time has lapsed.

Just seen Barclays have bank statements for my account back to 2009!

Luckily I've got the Finance house used for this car and will trace the others to make sure I've complained to the right people.

[CoolHands]

asfault said:

Customer: i can get 5% interest rate from the bank can you beat that?
Salesman: beat it? I'll fking double it!

lol the above all day long

Also, once again those of us careful with our choices don’t benefit from a nice little refund after signing whatever dumb deal was stuck under our noses. Just like PPI

[Chainedtomato]

CoolHands said:

asfault said:

Customer: i can get 5% interest rate from the bank can you beat that?
Salesman: beat it? I'll fking double it!

lol the above all day long

Also, once again those of us careful with our choices don’t benefit from a nice little refund after signing whatever dumb deal was stuck under our noses. Just like PPI

I’m very interested to see if someone like me who read all 6 agreements back to back thoroughly is affected. If I am, then this type of comment can get in the bin. See what happens

[OddCat]

CoolHands said:

asfault said:

Customer: i can get 5% interest rate from the bank can you beat that?
Salesman: beat it? I'll fking double it!

lol the above all day long

Also, once again those of us careful with our choices don’t benefit from a nice little refund after signing whatever dumb deal was stuck under our noses. Just like PPI

^^^^^^^ This. This is becoming a moral hazard issue. People can just do anything (or sign up to anything) safe in the knowledge that at some point it will be put right and someone else will pay.

[Chainedtomato]

OddCat said:

CoolHands said:

asfault said:

Customer: i can get 5% interest rate from the bank can you beat that?
Salesman: beat it? I'll fking double it!

lol the above all day long

Also, once again those of us careful with our choices don’t benefit from a nice little refund after signing whatever dumb deal was stuck under our noses. Just like PPI

^^^^^^^ This. This is becoming a moral hazard issue. People can just do anything (or sign up to anything) safe in the knowledge that at some point it will be put right and someone else will pay.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Are you a car dealer by any chance?

[Forester1965]

OddCat said:

^^^^^^^ This. This is becoming a moral hazard issue. People can just do anything (or sign up to anything) safe in the knowledge that at some point it will be put right and someone else will pay.

Nonsense. You could have been as careful as you liked in this instance.

Black Horse could have told the dealership it would offer 3.5%, but for every point they got above that they got an extra £100 or whatever in commission.

The customer walks in, gives his details and the salesman says "Great news! You can get 5%, you must have a great credit score!". It's deceptive. The customer had no way of finding out they qualified for the lower rate.

[CoolHands]

Forester1965 said:

The customer walks in, gives his details and the salesman says "Great news! You can get 5%, you must have a great credit score!". It's deceptive. The customer had no way of finding out they qualified for the lower rate.

What, other than look at other available loans? If the customer was happy at 5% and that was lower than any other deal they could get with any other lender then where’s the offence.