Where does all the money go?
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
Why not?
It’s like saying why shouldn’t air cost you money?
Shelter is critical, you need a patch of land to shelter and do basic survival.
Air-style accommodation IS free. Wild animals use it all the time. It’s like saying why shouldn’t air cost you money?
Shelter is critical, you need a patch of land to shelter and do basic survival.
But the type humans use always costs somebody something to build (and maintain). So how's it to be provided "free"?
Portia5 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Why not?
It’s like saying why shouldn’t air cost you money?
Shelter is critical, you need a patch of land to shelter and do basic survival.
Air-style accommodation IS free. Wild animals use it all the time. It’s like saying why shouldn’t air cost you money?
Shelter is critical, you need a patch of land to shelter and do basic survival.
But the type humans use always costs somebody something to build (and maintain). So how's it to be provided "free"?
We’re born into this system and then presented with housing costs, taxes etc.
Even a few acres of woodland can cost you as much as a house, and then you’d need PP for a hut.
The NHS is ‘free’
Roads are ‘free’
Defence is ‘free’
Society could make good basic housing ‘free’
Instead Society chooses to enrich a few by privatising this essential resource… or bailing them out, or whatever else they keep doing to distort the markets.
Land is abundant. I’m stood looking out over about 5,000 acres with about 200 houses on it.
There is more space than you can shake a stick at.
Ample to build sustainable green homes.
Ample to do whatever utopian thing we want to do.
But we don’t because of cronyism and greed… let’s not pretend it’s because it’s beyond the capability of human civilisation.
Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 8th April 10:59
Mr Whippy said:
The NHS is ‘free’
Roads are ‘free’
Defence is ‘free’
Society could make good basic housing ‘free’
Aha! You mean SNP-type 'free' - free to end-user paid for by the taxpayer. Like the trans thing. PRETEND free.Roads are ‘free’
Defence is ‘free’
Society could make good basic housing ‘free’
Still leaves a fight over who gets the good one in a nice location and who gets the s
te one in gross surroundings. And who does the choosing/allocating?I might be nice to imagine a sort of plot/foundations at a certain age and you pay for the stages thereafter, like a basic starter home/self build if you like/get others to do it if you don't, basically some sort of optionality?
It 'might' mean long term less social/supported housing, the idea being you have from day one a chance of working to achieve a basic home, it wouldn't even have to be that basic if your work/income allowed you to personally spend more, but the first rung could be more affordable would be the overall idea?
It 'might' mean long term less social/supported housing, the idea being you have from day one a chance of working to achieve a basic home, it wouldn't even have to be that basic if your work/income allowed you to personally spend more, but the first rung could be more affordable would be the overall idea?
Portia5 said:
Mr Whippy said:
The NHS is ‘free’
Roads are ‘free’
Defence is ‘free’
Society could make good basic housing ‘free’
Aha! You mean SNP-type 'free' - free to end-user paid for by the taxpayer. Like the trans thing. PRETEND free.Roads are ‘free’
Defence is ‘free’
Society could make good basic housing ‘free’
Still leaves a fight over who gets the good one in a nice location and who gets the s
te one in gross surroundings. And who does the choosing/allocating?Sheepshanks said:
Gordon Hill said:
I think that a previous poster summer it up for me with the phrase "I deserve". My 2 daughters are both in their late 20's. Both are highly educated and have well paying jobs. Their partners likewise, both have 1 child. While I love them all dearly any financial common sense that I've tried to pass onto them has fallen on deaf ears.
I know that we live in different times and that my priorities at their age was different to what theirs is I do try and remind them that for a lot of their childhood my wife and I had very little but we got by. Only as they got into their early teens did things start to get better financially until we got to the point where we are now very comfortable indeed and looking forward to, health willing, a long and happy retirement.
The difference is that because they are in well paid employment that they have gotten into the mode of thinking that they deserve to have whatever they want immediately, be it a house, cars, clothes, jewellery, holidays, furniture, the list is endless and as a consequence they are always pleading poverty. The concept of cutting ones cloth to suit is alien to them.
I may be old fashioned but my parents taught me that you earn the right to have nice things and if you can't afford it then you don't buy it.
I've got two daughters, ~10yrs older than yours, both married with young (at school) families, and they're not like you describe at all.I know that we live in different times and that my priorities at their age was different to what theirs is I do try and remind them that for a lot of their childhood my wife and I had very little but we got by. Only as they got into their early teens did things start to get better financially until we got to the point where we are now very comfortable indeed and looking forward to, health willing, a long and happy retirement.
The difference is that because they are in well paid employment that they have gotten into the mode of thinking that they deserve to have whatever they want immediately, be it a house, cars, clothes, jewellery, holidays, furniture, the list is endless and as a consequence they are always pleading poverty. The concept of cutting ones cloth to suit is alien to them.
I may be old fashioned but my parents taught me that you earn the right to have nice things and if you can't afford it then you don't buy it.
I don’t know what scale of income you’re talking about but I reckon they’ve got household incomes of around £120K gross (3 out of the 4 of them are public sector) but they live very modest lifestyles – they’re both still in the first house they bought (younger daughter’s was only £160K), don’t drive cars that in any way could be considered flash, and they’re not out every night or buying clothes / jewelery etc.
I sometimes wonder what they do spend their money on – a summer package holiday to Spain is about the only thing I could put my finger on. Apparenty bringing up a couple of kids is just very expensive these days. The younger one could do with taking a step up the housing ladder but she won’t hear of it.
I do feel a certain sympathy, they live in a well to do village and there is a lot of peer pressure to be seen to do certain things to "fit in" with the group that they hang about with. I personally can't stand any of them and wish that they'd find friends who are a bit less pretentious and don't base their self worth on material possessions and job titles. I feel a bit like Onslow from keeping up appearances when I pull up in my 19 year old E Class, which again is a point of contention, "oh dad with the money that you earn you can afford so much better", I've given up on an explanation and just smile.
markiii said:
Anyone who is guided by peer pressure is an idiot
Whilst I completely agree, it's tough for people in the early 20's - early 30's age brackets. There is so much pressure on them to look, act and portray a certain 'image'. Look how many Females in their 20's have perfect teeth, it's almost seen as compulsory (the Men aren't any better). Sad really but easy to get caught up in this lifestyle and lifestyle creep where 2 decent incomes get you nowhere, well apart from looking good and trying to live a flashy lifestyle..
Gordon Hill said:
I do feel a certain sympathy, they live in a well to do village and there is a lot of peer pressure to be seen to do certain things to "fit in" with the group that they hang about with.
Are they in the SE? We (and the kids) are in the NW but from the odd things I hear about their SE friends from uni they seem to live a more 'elevated' lifestyle. Taking their little kids to Lapland last winter was a big thing a group of them did - something my younger daughter would love to do for her kids but wouldn't dream of spending the £7K it was going to cost for a couple of days.Sheepshanks said:
Gordon Hill said:
I do feel a certain sympathy, they live in a well to do village and there is a lot of peer pressure to be seen to do certain things to "fit in" with the group that they hang about with.
Are they in the SE? We (and the kids) are in the NW but from the odd things I hear about their SE friends from uni they seem to live a more 'elevated' lifestyle. Taking their little kids to Lapland last winter was a big thing a group of them did - something my younger daughter would love to do for her kids but wouldn't dream of spending the £7K it was going to cost for a couple of days.RayDonovan said:
markiii said:
Anyone who is guided by peer pressure is an idiot
Whilst I completely agree, it's tough for people in the early 20's - early 30's age brackets. There is so much pressure on them to look, act and portray a certain 'image'. Look how many Females in their 20's have perfect teeth, it's almost seen as compulsory (the Men aren't any better). Sad really but easy to get caught up in this lifestyle and lifestyle creep where 2 decent incomes get you nowhere, well apart from looking good and trying to live a flashy lifestyle..
Edited by Gordon Hill on Monday 8th April 20:05
Sheepshanks said:
Are they in the SE? We (and the kids) are in the NW but from the odd things I hear about their SE friends from uni they seem to live a more 'elevated' lifestyle. Taking their little kids to Lapland last winter was a big thing a group of them did - something my younger daughter would love to do for her kids but wouldn't dream of spending the £7K it was going to cost for a couple of days.
There is the TOWIE and made in Chelsea factors, that there are just simply many families with plenty of cash to flash and the cliche' social media pressure for those that don't.I'm not sure it's worse than it ever was, I feel lucky to have largely avoided peer pressure in general, but it seems to be in the younger generation, but they've growth up often with 'easy' money, parents have huge house price increases, whatever you borrowed for property came off handsomely, and the government 'gives' you (what i'd consider to be a huge sum or money) for your education on a DFS type repayment plan.
They aren't taught many fiscal/budgeting/delayed gratification lessons, it's definitely shifted to buy now, pay later, or monthly or if you don't earn enough don't panic, just wait long enough and the debt will eventually disappear. These aren't the guidelines to frugal, minimalist contentment! they are more aligned with yolo, hedonism, debt enslavement?
Gordon Hill said:
It's a guess (but an educated one) that household income is around 150k for each couple. Doesn't make any difference though as that's just a number, even at double that they'd get through it. House price was around 230k, again a guess because I wasn't taking any notice. Mine indulge in most of the things that your children don't, so cars, holidays, clothes, on the subject of which it's just not possible or rational to have as many clothes or shoes as my oldest daughter has, wear it twice and bin it off to the charity shop.
I do feel a certain sympathy, they live in a well to do village and there is a lot of peer pressure to be seen to do certain things to "fit in" with the group that they hang about with. I personally can't stand any of them and wish that they'd find friends who are a bit less pretentious and don't base their self worth on material possessions and job titles. I feel a bit like Onslow from keeping up appearances when I pull up in my 19 year old E Class, which again is a point of contention, "oh dad with the money that you earn you can afford so much better", I've given up on an explanation and just smile.
It sounds as if they have quite a lot of income relative to their house price - probably have bundles of spare cash and what’s the point of saving it when houses cost as little as that? Not like retirement will be all that difficult!I do feel a certain sympathy, they live in a well to do village and there is a lot of peer pressure to be seen to do certain things to "fit in" with the group that they hang about with. I personally can't stand any of them and wish that they'd find friends who are a bit less pretentious and don't base their self worth on material possessions and job titles. I feel a bit like Onslow from keeping up appearances when I pull up in my 19 year old E Class, which again is a point of contention, "oh dad with the money that you earn you can afford so much better", I've given up on an explanation and just smile.
I think the silly teeth, clothes with names all over them and leased car nonsense is the reserve of the low- middle income bracket, you don’t see people that look like that with sleeve tattoos etc in expensive parts of the UK (unless they’re footballers or builders dun gud).
Does the free housing need to be in the U.K.? For those who don't like Ruanda, China looks to have entire cities available: https://www.atlasobscura.com/things-to-do/china/gh...
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