Where does all the money go?
Discussion
xeny said:
Mr Whippy said:
The point is, if everyone does this it doesn’t work.
Everyone can’t work harder if ‘society generally’ wants a better standard of living.
I'm not sure about this. We're told part of the UK's problem is GDP growth/capita is poor because productivity isn't improving. Isn't working harder potentially another way of describing increasing productivity?Everyone can’t work harder if ‘society generally’ wants a better standard of living.
A huge chunk of the population is hugely demotivated by growing inequality.
I was watching a documentary on the miners' strikes back in '84. Lads aged 22-24, doing manual work, who could buy houses and cars, and support a wife and kids on one income.
Unthinkable now.
Sebastian Tombs said:
You're doing fine. You're even saving £300 a month.
You're really only about 20 grand in salary from being 1%ers.
Once student loans are paid off you will feel richer.
Stop comparing yourself to others and do what makes you happy.
The only financial advice I have is sack off the car leasing and instead save up and buy something nicer that you actually want. Cars do not have to be new. A perfectly decent Porsche can be had cheaper than a new Hyundai i10
In a few years you will inherit from your families and suddenly you will feel loaded.
1% of the world or the U.K.? 1% of the U.K. working population is still about 400,000 people. And I think you are adding both incomes where the 1% is probably just for 1 person.You're really only about 20 grand in salary from being 1%ers.
Once student loans are paid off you will feel richer.
Stop comparing yourself to others and do what makes you happy.
The only financial advice I have is sack off the car leasing and instead save up and buy something nicer that you actually want. Cars do not have to be new. A perfectly decent Porsche can be had cheaper than a new Hyundai i10
In a few years you will inherit from your families and suddenly you will feel loaded.
Edited by Sebastian Tombs on Friday 1st March 19:05
wormus said:
Mr Whippy said:
Your kids are so lucky with a parent like you 
Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
Or teach them to make their own luck and give them just enough help to do it. Few threads on here where youngsters are moaning about parents being lucky and life being harder now, when the truth is, they cannot be arsed to get out of bed before midday.Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
Yes teenagers sleep till midday.
Did you name your son Shirley?
NDNDNDND said:
xeny said:
Mr Whippy said:
The point is, if everyone does this it doesn’t work.
Everyone can’t work harder if ‘society generally’ wants a better standard of living.
I'm not sure about this. We're told part of the UK's problem is GDP growth/capita is poor because productivity isn't improving. Isn't working harder potentially another way of describing increasing productivity?Everyone can’t work harder if ‘society generally’ wants a better standard of living.
A huge chunk of the population is hugely demotivated by growing inequality.
I was watching a documentary on the miners' strikes back in '84. Lads aged 22-24, doing manual work, who could buy houses and cars, and support a wife and kids on one income.
Unthinkable now.
dave123456 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Your kids are so lucky with a parent like you
Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
How is it the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes? That is a fairly ridiculous statement, a working class lifestyle two lifetimes ago was a fair bit bleaker than today…Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
NaePasaran said:
OP, you're gonna be in for a shock when you have kids. My nursery fee's are 300 a week!
it's a sad reality how many couples of chid-raising age are now being put off by the financial impact of having kids! the OP is still in a 'good' position to afford kids,.. the worrying thought is how many don't have the same income and have totally given up on the idea of kids.my eldest is in a not dissimilar position to the OP and has one child. they'd like a second but are just too scared of the additional costs.
chip* said:
dave123456 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Your kids are so lucky with a parent like you
Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
How is it the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes? That is a fairly ridiculous statement, a working class lifestyle two lifetimes ago was a fair bit bleaker than today…Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
I absolutely get what the OP means, I went through a similar way of thinking a while ago.
But I do think it's easy to slip into spending habits that need a bit of a reality check occasionally. A while ago I found myself buying a coffee/croissant/banana for brekkie on the way to work, even though there was free decent coffee in the office. That was £10, every weekday. Once the penny dropped I brought a yogurt & banana from home and drank office coffee. I still went out and bought lunch, but I'd saved the best part of £2,000pa bringing brekky. If one can be arsed, there's plenty of things similar that can be done which really add up in monthly savings.
Also, There's an awful lot the OP detailed that can be done much cheaper with a bit of thought. £200 travel insurance - mines included free with CC, but an annual policy for 2...max £75, more like £50. Internet at £43pm - we have 75Mbps BT fibre to property at £26pm. Phone plans £50pm - we each have EE SIM only 20gb, unlimited calls/texts - £18pm between us. Apple family plan £32pm ?? Spotify is 1/3 of this. These add up to about £1,000pa saved, and the list could go on.....
A final thought....be thankful. These are your spending choices (and, deffo no criticism here - your money, you chose) but you literally have everything a young couple could need/want, a nice house, nice location, 2 cars, active social life, holiday(s), lots of contingency budget, etc, etc and well over £1,500 spare each month.
But I do think it's easy to slip into spending habits that need a bit of a reality check occasionally. A while ago I found myself buying a coffee/croissant/banana for brekkie on the way to work, even though there was free decent coffee in the office. That was £10, every weekday. Once the penny dropped I brought a yogurt & banana from home and drank office coffee. I still went out and bought lunch, but I'd saved the best part of £2,000pa bringing brekky. If one can be arsed, there's plenty of things similar that can be done which really add up in monthly savings.
Also, There's an awful lot the OP detailed that can be done much cheaper with a bit of thought. £200 travel insurance - mines included free with CC, but an annual policy for 2...max £75, more like £50. Internet at £43pm - we have 75Mbps BT fibre to property at £26pm. Phone plans £50pm - we each have EE SIM only 20gb, unlimited calls/texts - £18pm between us. Apple family plan £32pm ?? Spotify is 1/3 of this. These add up to about £1,000pa saved, and the list could go on.....
A final thought....be thankful. These are your spending choices (and, deffo no criticism here - your money, you chose) but you literally have everything a young couple could need/want, a nice house, nice location, 2 cars, active social life, holiday(s), lots of contingency budget, etc, etc and well over £1,500 spare each month.
alphanumeric said:
I don't know what this post is other than perhaps a little bit of a self-important whinge, but it's the sort of subject I felt can't be discussed with mates or is hard to bring up without sounding like, well, having a self-important whinge.
But where does all the money go? And how on earth are people living the lives they seem to be?
Us? Mid-30s couple, no kids yet, both doing comfortably well for ourselves to the point that I know I can't discuss this with our circle of friends as the likelihood is it would come across as more than a little boastful, but I'm on mid-£50s and she gets just over £70k. After pension contributions, her student loan, tax etc we're left with around £6.5k combined per month. Even writing that makes me come back to my first question, but where the F does all that go every month?!
We live in a reasonable 4-bed place in the London-commuter side of Hampshire, smidge over £400k on mortgage with repayments currently just over 2% at about £1800/month. Knowing what rates are doing we've been over-paying this to the tune of £500/month in an attempt at damage limitation and to accustom ourselves to this new sum when it comes in summer '25. Council tax (£250), gas/electric (£200), water (£40), TV licence (£13) bring us down to £3700 or so.
Then we have to think about the car payment (£380) - Thankfully one is paid off and we told ourselves we'd do one car at a time, because two at that price would be crazy but it still feels like a huge sum for an average car and wouldn't buy us the same again today, so no doubt that will go up/we'll downgrade when the time comes and we're putting £150/month away for a larger deposit next time around in an attempt to get off the PCP treadmill.
Then you've got insurance; Two cars at £500 each per year, £150 for the house, £100 or so for the cat, £200 or so for a travel policy. We put away £150/month to cover these when they come up and to ensure there's a soft landing if any of them jump. Then we put away £300/month for a combination of rainy-day fund, car servicing, "oh s
t it broke fund", and holidays etc if we take them.
We're down to £2700 already and we haven't even been to the supermarket yet (~£500/month), put diesel in (~£300/month), paid for the internet (£43), or either of our phone plans, (£32 and £17.50, both sim-only despite being at figures that used to get you a new handset a few years ago). Two gym memberships (£86 at the council leisure centre with a pool), Apple family plan (£32), and then Netflix or Amazon Prime or Disney depending on which one has the show we want at any time (we never run multiples) is another £15 or so.
Nothing here feels out of the ordinary but we've already spent the average salary twice over and we've not eaten out yet, gone to the pub, taken a pet to the vet, had a haircut, bought a birthday present, serviced a car, had the windows cleaned... Or got married, or had a child, both of which just feel unfathomably expensive.
So how the hell is everyone else doing it? How are our neighbours ferrying their multiple kids around in fancier cars than ours? Paying for their gardens to be landscaped? Going on their trips to the Spanish islands every summer with the whole brood when our trip to Gran Canaria later this year has required dedicated planning and saving for just two of us?
Am I just completely detached from the reality of this country and living a lifestyle others could really only dream of? Is it skewed by living in such an expensive area (necessitated by commutes)?
A 4-bed semi and a 3 year old Hyundai don't feel very top-10%-of-earners but that's where we find ourselves. And I don't even feel like this is bitterness in the sense that I want the nicer car or anything, I just want to be able to live my life without worrying about the next big bill. I want to ask her to marry me and not worry about paying for the wedding. I want to have kids and not have to think twice about feeding and clothing them. And it just feels out of reach.
Stop comparing yourself to others and/or social media lifestyle posts which are mostly b0llocks.But where does all the money go? And how on earth are people living the lives they seem to be?
Us? Mid-30s couple, no kids yet, both doing comfortably well for ourselves to the point that I know I can't discuss this with our circle of friends as the likelihood is it would come across as more than a little boastful, but I'm on mid-£50s and she gets just over £70k. After pension contributions, her student loan, tax etc we're left with around £6.5k combined per month. Even writing that makes me come back to my first question, but where the F does all that go every month?!
We live in a reasonable 4-bed place in the London-commuter side of Hampshire, smidge over £400k on mortgage with repayments currently just over 2% at about £1800/month. Knowing what rates are doing we've been over-paying this to the tune of £500/month in an attempt at damage limitation and to accustom ourselves to this new sum when it comes in summer '25. Council tax (£250), gas/electric (£200), water (£40), TV licence (£13) bring us down to £3700 or so.
Then we have to think about the car payment (£380) - Thankfully one is paid off and we told ourselves we'd do one car at a time, because two at that price would be crazy but it still feels like a huge sum for an average car and wouldn't buy us the same again today, so no doubt that will go up/we'll downgrade when the time comes and we're putting £150/month away for a larger deposit next time around in an attempt to get off the PCP treadmill.
Then you've got insurance; Two cars at £500 each per year, £150 for the house, £100 or so for the cat, £200 or so for a travel policy. We put away £150/month to cover these when they come up and to ensure there's a soft landing if any of them jump. Then we put away £300/month for a combination of rainy-day fund, car servicing, "oh s
t it broke fund", and holidays etc if we take them.We're down to £2700 already and we haven't even been to the supermarket yet (~£500/month), put diesel in (~£300/month), paid for the internet (£43), or either of our phone plans, (£32 and £17.50, both sim-only despite being at figures that used to get you a new handset a few years ago). Two gym memberships (£86 at the council leisure centre with a pool), Apple family plan (£32), and then Netflix or Amazon Prime or Disney depending on which one has the show we want at any time (we never run multiples) is another £15 or so.
Nothing here feels out of the ordinary but we've already spent the average salary twice over and we've not eaten out yet, gone to the pub, taken a pet to the vet, had a haircut, bought a birthday present, serviced a car, had the windows cleaned... Or got married, or had a child, both of which just feel unfathomably expensive.
So how the hell is everyone else doing it? How are our neighbours ferrying their multiple kids around in fancier cars than ours? Paying for their gardens to be landscaped? Going on their trips to the Spanish islands every summer with the whole brood when our trip to Gran Canaria later this year has required dedicated planning and saving for just two of us?
Am I just completely detached from the reality of this country and living a lifestyle others could really only dream of? Is it skewed by living in such an expensive area (necessitated by commutes)?
A 4-bed semi and a 3 year old Hyundai don't feel very top-10%-of-earners but that's where we find ourselves. And I don't even feel like this is bitterness in the sense that I want the nicer car or anything, I just want to be able to live my life without worrying about the next big bill. I want to ask her to marry me and not worry about paying for the wedding. I want to have kids and not have to think twice about feeding and clothing them. And it just feels out of reach.
Who knows what your neighbour's positions are - they could have bought a house identical to yours 10 years ago for £250K. With the same overpayment they would either be mortgage-free or have a small balance remaining now given previous interest rates.
Those folks may earn less than your combined income but assume broadly similar.
Difference is they don't have a £2,300/month mortgage which equates to £27K/year
If your neighbour has a new leased Audi, say £500/month = £6K/year
They take a fortnight in Spain - can't be more £10K max.
Those neighbours still have £10K/year more disposable than you after holidays, cars etc because they bought at a different time and lucked out.
That's one scenario amongst many possibilities... personal anecdote - a school mate's parents died when we were in our late 30's and he inherited a very substantial amount of assets & financial holdings/options.
He's always been a lazy f**ker, but has done no work since - spends his days on hiking expeditions & charity funding.
Lives in a nice "normal" suburban road, but likes his cars so has a Huracan on the drive.
His neighbours probably wonder what he does too!!
PS. Ask her to marry you - if the reason you are holding off is money, don't be bl00dy stupid.
Edited by OzzyR1 on Saturday 2nd March 02:48
We cope very well on two State pensions and my RAF pension, total income of about £2k pm!
That's running two owned properties, three vehicles but no pets or dependent kids, and there is usually a few quid left over each month.
I would suggest that the OP records every single payment over a month, then sits his partner down and they go through each expense and decide what is needed and what can be cut/reduced. i would be starting with the £500pw supermarket bill!
That's running two owned properties, three vehicles but no pets or dependent kids, and there is usually a few quid left over each month.
I would suggest that the OP records every single payment over a month, then sits his partner down and they go through each expense and decide what is needed and what can be cut/reduced. i would be starting with the £500pw supermarket bill!
alphanumeric said:
We're down to £2700 already and we haven't even been to the supermarket yet (~£500/month), put diesel in (~£300/month), paid for the internet (£43), or either of our phone plans, (£32 and £17.50, both sim-only despite being at figures that used to get you a new handset a few years ago). Two gym memberships (£86 at the council leisure centre with a pool), Apple family plan (£32), and then Netflix or Amazon Prime or Disney depending on which one has the show we want at any time (we never run multiples) is another £15 or so.
Your mortgage is similar to ours, but our house hold income is quite a bit higher. In addition our food bill for a family of 3 is at most £250/month, internet is £28/month, phones are £18/month combined, no gym membership but have a £39/month Peloton membership, Netflix account and student Spotify account. We only go on one big holiday a year, my car is 7 years old this year my wife's 9 years old. We don't really eat out, once a month max as a family treat.Your income is good, but your recurrent spending seems quite high, its certainly higher than ours. Most people's earning peak in their 40s, so in your mid 30s you should be eyeing up how to progress up the career ladder to maximise you earnings.
As someone else has said, stop comparing your self to others, you seem to be living more than a comfortable life, in presumably a nice part of the country. We were reflecting on our totally unnecessary house renovation project last night, the reality is as a family we could/would be very happy in a 3 bed terrace, not go on any holidays abroad (this year there will be no holiday due to the house renovation costs), as long as everyone in the family is together and healthy.
Comparing your self to others will never leave you feeling happier, there is even a psychological theory on this. I've found comparing my self to my owne expectations to be far more productive, since about mid 20s I have an aim of where I want to be in life for the next 5 years, and use that as a benchmark to gauge how am doing. So far in life that approach seem to have worked.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
G-wiz said:
If you can avoid it, don't do the mortgage thing.
Buy property with cash.
Even if it's a stty 3 bed end-terrace, like mine.
Not sure if serious or if it is, if good advice. Buy property with cash.
Even if it's a s
tty 3 bed end-terrace, like mine.Looking at my lifetime, I should have borrowed more as my property has appreciated well above the interest they cost. Had I borrowed more, I'd have more appreciation.
Don't let finances get in the way of having kids. You'll make it work because you'll have/want to. I left it a bit late (had my youngest) when i was 35, so i'll be nearly retired by the time he's off on his own and earning!
This springs to mind
https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=e8_oVQeRYJrK0rE1
This springs to mind
https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=e8_oVQeRYJrK0rE1
OP completely agree with you in what you have said. It’s a difficult subject to talk about.
I think the point is, you ARE living a luxury lifestyle. Your expectations are just different as to what luxury is. You already mentioned you’re in the top 10% of earners. You have 2 cars, 4 bed house, have a holiday each year, gym memberships etc, this is a good lifestyle.
Social media has ruined everyone’s expectations of what they expect.
I think the point is, you ARE living a luxury lifestyle. Your expectations are just different as to what luxury is. You already mentioned you’re in the top 10% of earners. You have 2 cars, 4 bed house, have a holiday each year, gym memberships etc, this is a good lifestyle.
Social media has ruined everyone’s expectations of what they expect.
OP IMHO its probably a combination of 3 things
1 not getting good value for money on some of the monthlies.
2 additional small spending that you dont notice, coffee, that pair of trainers, amazon purchases etc
3 spending more on going out / holidays than you realise. Entertainment is always a bit of a black hole and you have to track that spending more carefully IME.
Society and the economy is geared up to extract money from people, death by 1000 contactless payments.
You also have the issue that your mrs is also doing the same. Its hard to keep everyone on the same page. If thats what you want.
Anyway, your best bet is to start a monthly excel sheet and keep track. Then at the end of the month see what you really spent.
I always like to look at the cost of stuff over 10 years (I am odd like that). So x a weekly expense by 520.... you will get some big numbers....
Enjoy!
1 not getting good value for money on some of the monthlies.
2 additional small spending that you dont notice, coffee, that pair of trainers, amazon purchases etc
3 spending more on going out / holidays than you realise. Entertainment is always a bit of a black hole and you have to track that spending more carefully IME.
Society and the economy is geared up to extract money from people, death by 1000 contactless payments.
You also have the issue that your mrs is also doing the same. Its hard to keep everyone on the same page. If thats what you want.
Anyway, your best bet is to start a monthly excel sheet and keep track. Then at the end of the month see what you really spent.
I always like to look at the cost of stuff over 10 years (I am odd like that). So x a weekly expense by 520.... you will get some big numbers....
Enjoy!
I know what OP means, and I've had a quick breeze over most of the replies.
Not sure if its been mentioned, but in my circle of friends, there's been a lot of financial help from family/inheritance. I know of probably 8-10 people who've receieved 20k-50k inheritance between ages of 25 and 30, and while they're nto overly flash about it, its clearly helped them get started in terms of setting up their family home, nice car etc.
I live near Kings Lynn, ave house prices maybe 205k-300k so mortgages likely to be lower over the last 15 years or so. I'm now kind of wondering how people are coping now the interest rates have crept up in recent months.
For my clarity, let me add what we spend per month
ave take home is around £4600
mortgage £862
insurances (health, pet, car, home) £100-110
energy/water £145
council tax £195
Sky/broadband £60
Food shopping £400
Dog food £40
car loan £200
fuel £120
mobiles £65 total
my credit card £75 oh is clear afaik
dog vets monthly £17
I'm bald, oh hair is £80 every 4m, so £20
£2350 ish
We're not overpaying on mortgage, but combined, we are trying to save around £700 a month, every month to renevate our house and for hols and to maybe pay off a bit in the future etc.
Still leaves us with similar disposable to OP I think.
Not sure if its been mentioned, but in my circle of friends, there's been a lot of financial help from family/inheritance. I know of probably 8-10 people who've receieved 20k-50k inheritance between ages of 25 and 30, and while they're nto overly flash about it, its clearly helped them get started in terms of setting up their family home, nice car etc.
I live near Kings Lynn, ave house prices maybe 205k-300k so mortgages likely to be lower over the last 15 years or so. I'm now kind of wondering how people are coping now the interest rates have crept up in recent months.
For my clarity, let me add what we spend per month
ave take home is around £4600
mortgage £862
insurances (health, pet, car, home) £100-110
energy/water £145
council tax £195
Sky/broadband £60
Food shopping £400
Dog food £40
car loan £200
fuel £120
mobiles £65 total
my credit card £75 oh is clear afaik
dog vets monthly £17
I'm bald, oh hair is £80 every 4m, so £20
£2350 ish
We're not overpaying on mortgage, but combined, we are trying to save around £700 a month, every month to renevate our house and for hols and to maybe pay off a bit in the future etc.
Still leaves us with similar disposable to OP I think.
Edited by andyjo1982 on Saturday 2nd March 10:10
Edited by andyjo1982 on Saturday 2nd March 10:10
Edited by andyjo1982 on Saturday 2nd March 10:18
chip* said:
dave123456 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Your kids are so lucky with a parent like you
Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
How is it the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes? That is a fairly ridiculous statement, a working class lifestyle two lifetimes ago was a fair bit bleaker than today…Going into the bleakest looking economic future in two lifetimes, you’ll be ok kids.
And unless I’d speculated into the AI/Tech stuff randomly back in Nov 22 ish, I’d still be by and large evens on their growth.
Vanguard all world ex U.S. is down year on year. Inc US is up but on the narrowest breadth, with the same speculative outlook of ‘rate cuts coming’ and NFT/crypto/GameStop/VR/omniverse hype we’ve seen each year from 2020 onwards.
Do you think I should invest it all back into trackers now? Buying big stakes in a load of tech/ai stuff?
Maybe if there was a global tracker, minus usa, minus tech/ai, etf, I’d be interested.
It’s a bleak economic outlook in two lifetimes (I’d count them as working lifetimes, so double a ‘generation’?)
1950 to now is about 75 years.
In 1950 the world rocketed along on post war boom, a genuine technology revolution (computers), nuclear energy, a low point in wealth inequality.
Right now we’re at a peak in wealth inequality.
Are you suggesting it now tracks sideways at an only just tolerable level for decades and we all get used to it?
Or that it gets worse, and that too is going to be ok?
Or that policy suddenly appears to revert to a happier level, out of nowhere, despite it being the way it is by design because governments and central banks are captured by the very wealthy?
Yes it’s the bleakest outlook it’s been.
The last leveller was WW2, because a lot of people lost everything.
So either we go sideways at record levels = bleak.
It gets worse = bleak.
Or it falls which is likely a horrible event = bleak.
Maybe some people are utter gits but I’ve decided to have kids i this world.
Whether it happens or not, the future has the potential to be bleak and so I’ll be helping mine out as much as I can financially.
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