Boomer life according to the economist
Discussion
I would only be guessing if you were on the Remain side but certainly many of the well educated and wealthy ones that were, including many of the politicians, had no clue why anyone would vote Leave and not bothering to find out is why they lost; not because they didn’t concentrate on equality of education and economics.
Either way, I still don’t see it has a place here.
Either way, I still don’t see it has a place here.
but it gets everywhere, only 8 years on.Landlords do seem an easy target this past few years.
The single biggest cock up has to be removing the ability to claim mortgage interest as a cost of business as a private landlord. I doubt that cat will ever get put back in the bag.
The result has been the 100% to 150% inflation of rents in our area, although there are some special circumstances there too helping that figure.
We're right beside the border between NI and Southern Ireland and thanks to work from home and COVID as well quite a lot of people have sold up and moved from the south to the north. Property prices are through the roof in our area probably getting on for +60% in the past few years and not really slowing down.
The single biggest cock up has to be removing the ability to claim mortgage interest as a cost of business as a private landlord. I doubt that cat will ever get put back in the bag.
The result has been the 100% to 150% inflation of rents in our area, although there are some special circumstances there too helping that figure.
We're right beside the border between NI and Southern Ireland and thanks to work from home and COVID as well quite a lot of people have sold up and moved from the south to the north. Property prices are through the roof in our area probably getting on for +60% in the past few years and not really slowing down.
Steve H said:
I would only be guessing if you were on the Remain side but certainly many of the well educated and wealthy ones that were, including many of the politicians, had no clue why anyone would vote Leave and not bothering to find out is why they lost; not because they didn’t concentrate on equality of education and economics.
Either way, I still don’t see it has a place here.
Its not about Brexit, its about voter behaviour at the ballot box - particularly when people don't like the status quo.Either way, I still don’t see it has a place here.
There is a fairly high chance Labour are going to get in later this year - if the Tories really blow up, probably Labour having 2 terms. That means they could try some pretty robust policy early on - some form of wealth taxing is a high probability (they also need to cover the 2.5% defence spending that give it a few more years could easily need to be 3.5-5%). They won't be thinking radical Corbyn / McDonnell level policies - but there are plenty of taxable gains sitting there ready to be collected. If distributed correctly, they won't have an age problem.
Paddymcc said:
The single biggest cock up has to be removing the ability to claim mortgage interest as a cost of business as a private landlord. I doubt that cat will ever get put back in the bag.
Law of unintended consequences.It was put in place as that particular relief was giving landlords (even more of) a head-start over owner-occupiers in the housing market because owner-occupiers lost MIRAS decades ago. Which was deemed to be fuelling house-price growth.
havoc said:
Paddymcc said:
The single biggest cock up has to be removing the ability to claim mortgage interest as a cost of business as a private landlord. I doubt that cat will ever get put back in the bag.
Law of unintended consequences.It was put in place as that particular relief was giving landlords (even more of) a head-start over owner-occupiers in the housing market because owner-occupiers lost MIRAS decades ago. Which was deemed to be fuelling house-price growth.
As 40 year old with parents born in 1958 & 1959 I can see many similarities in the economist's definition.
My parents divorced when I was 11, not something i could afford to do today, even though I am in the top %s of those daily wail earning scales for this Great Island.
Yet my Dad managed to procure, on his own as both wives never worked and he had no handouts either (well none from his parents, plenty from the "economy" though), 2 x £1.5m+ houses (one for my mum, and one for his new family) in "today's money" and go on to produce another 3 kids too. He has been public sector PAYE all his life. Retired this year at 66 with a pension of £140k per annum.
The last line of their quote basically saying Boomers get what Boomers want is how it has always been in my father's case.
My parents divorced when I was 11, not something i could afford to do today, even though I am in the top %s of those daily wail earning scales for this Great Island.
Yet my Dad managed to procure, on his own as both wives never worked and he had no handouts either (well none from his parents, plenty from the "economy" though), 2 x £1.5m+ houses (one for my mum, and one for his new family) in "today's money" and go on to produce another 3 kids too. He has been public sector PAYE all his life. Retired this year at 66 with a pension of £140k per annum.
The last line of their quote basically saying Boomers get what Boomers want is how it has always been in my father's case.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
As 40 year old with parents born in 1958 & 1959 I can see many similarities in the economist's definition.
My parents divorced when I was 11, not something i could afford to do today, even though I am in the top %s of those daily wail earning scales for this Great Island.
Yet my Dad managed to procure, on his own as both wives never worked and he had no handouts either (well none from his parents, plenty from the "economy" though), 2 x £1.5m+ houses (one for my mum, and one for his new family) in "today's money" and go on to produce another 3 kids too. He has been public sector PAYE all his life. Retired this year at 66 with a pension of £140k per annum.
The last line of their quote basically saying Boomers get what Boomers want is how it has always been in my father's case.
The phrasing is weak though, if boomers could get what boomers want, they could all get the full package as presumably it was / is desireable and wanted.My parents divorced when I was 11, not something i could afford to do today, even though I am in the top %s of those daily wail earning scales for this Great Island.
Yet my Dad managed to procure, on his own as both wives never worked and he had no handouts either (well none from his parents, plenty from the "economy" though), 2 x £1.5m+ houses (one for my mum, and one for his new family) in "today's money" and go on to produce another 3 kids too. He has been public sector PAYE all his life. Retired this year at 66 with a pension of £140k per annum.
The last line of their quote basically saying Boomers get what Boomers want is how it has always been in my father's case.
Reality is that they were born at a particular time and live(d) through it, no more or less, identifying them through cheap rheotoric as somehow the cause of their accident of birthdate, and of their working life context, is silly, and smacks of envy at its worst.
There's a big age gap between one of my brothers and me, he got full boomership through an accident of birthdate and I couldn't be happier for him as much as I am for others I don't know from Adam (or Eve), His property track record, pension, etc put my position in the shade, however he just made the best of opportunities that arose and I've tried to do the same, is that not what most of us end up doing with our own accidents of birthdate?
Shift happens, get on with getting on and if possible try not to begrudge others if they appear to be more fortunatPersonally I can't see any form of envy as worth the effort, an entirely unhelpful and negative way of looking at life.
turbobloke said:
The phrasing is weak though, if boomers could get what boomers want, they could all get the full package as presumably it was / is desireable and wanted.
Reality is that they were born at a particular time and live(d) through it, no more or less, identifying them through cheap rheotoric as somehow the cause of their accident of birthdate, and of their working life context, is silly, and smacks of envy at its worst.
There's a big age gap between one of my brothers and me, he got full boomership through an accident of birthdate and I couldn't be happier for him as much as I am for others I don't know from Adam (or Eve), His property track record, pension, etc put my position in the shade, however he just made the best of opportunities that arose and I've tried to do the same, is that not what most of us end up doing with our own accidents of birthdate?
Shift happens, get on with getting on and if possible try not to begrudge others if they appear to be more fortunatPersonally I can't see any form of envy as worth the effort, an entirely unhelpful and negative way of looking at life.
It's always put down to envy, in reality some is but often it's also just cold hard economics when arguing for changes. The benefits boomers had was demographics driven combined with some inflation and tax rules. Given the massive issues coming up pushing for changes to our tax rules makes sense. So for example possibly adding much stricter IHT rules or tax makes sense given the current situation we are in, with a massively increasing spend on pensions and healthcare but with less workers paying tax. The money has to come from somewhere, and the most obvious place is taxing wealth rather than income, as 1) there is less income due to less people working, and 2) income has stagnated for a decade or two and only matched inflation (i.e. no growth). Wealth has grown a lot, so it makes sense that it is the thing to tax to fund the big spending gap. That isn't envy, that is simply trying to balance the books. Less income available combined with a bigger spend and it makes most sense to tax those who have and still are doing well because of previous demographics and tax rules. That's not envy. Reality is that they were born at a particular time and live(d) through it, no more or less, identifying them through cheap rheotoric as somehow the cause of their accident of birthdate, and of their working life context, is silly, and smacks of envy at its worst.
There's a big age gap between one of my brothers and me, he got full boomership through an accident of birthdate and I couldn't be happier for him as much as I am for others I don't know from Adam (or Eve), His property track record, pension, etc put my position in the shade, however he just made the best of opportunities that arose and I've tried to do the same, is that not what most of us end up doing with our own accidents of birthdate?
Shift happens, get on with getting on and if possible try not to begrudge others if they appear to be more fortunatPersonally I can't see any form of envy as worth the effort, an entirely unhelpful and negative way of looking at life.
Portia5 said:
Similarly on here. People who are professionally competent like geologists or accountants or what have you decide that their naive and sometimes plain silly opinions on property matters are some substitute for actual knowledge and experience of the subject. And rather than ask the people who DO have the experience and perhaps find out WHY they have the opinions they do, they want to quarrel and argue and insist black is white when all it really is is moonhowling and cloud scolding and in the end pointless timewasting.
What UK politicians want to START by doing is examining how landlords are operating successfully including managing tenant expectations and satisfaction, controlling rent, operating leases, progressing a repair standard, and doing this at scale. Learn how its done and then create or indeed sometimes dismantle legislation with an aim to achieving the same across the entire industry and the geographical area of their operation.
That's partly true, but it's very easy to highlight that more buyers for a property will push the price up more due to extra competition, even if the supply remains the same. That is always ignored by the LLs on here. It happens for everything else so will happen for houses too. What UK politicians want to START by doing is examining how landlords are operating successfully including managing tenant expectations and satisfaction, controlling rent, operating leases, progressing a repair standard, and doing this at scale. Learn how its done and then create or indeed sometimes dismantle legislation with an aim to achieving the same across the entire industry and the geographical area of their operation.
Also there is benefits to listen to experts, but there is also major risks/downsides too. The experts will push some sensible advice, but will also push advice that makes them profit or reduces downside risks. You can possibly then take input from others which might be good too.
For example one of the big issues is housing shortages, so we need more houses built. Building companies would argue for tax breaks/subsidies and so on to make it cheaper for them. But that often just means bigger profits or they just compete with each other pushing land prices higher and resulting in the same issue of not building houses once profits die due to the increased land price issue. But one issue is housing developers sitting on undeveloped land, as if they built on all the land they own it pushes house prices down as there is more properties and so less competition. So they will sit on land and not allow others to develop it, but not do it themselves. Someone from outside the industry could maybe suggest that instead of having a subsidy what happens is we have a slowly increasing tax rate on unused land that people sit on. The longer a developer sits on land it would get more expensive, so either you sell it to someone else to develop or do it yourself. That could be an alternative to get more houses built, but would never be recommended by those in the industry. You need both input from inside and outside the industry.
NRS said:
turbobloke said:
The phrasing is weak though, if boomers could get what boomers want, they could all get the full package as presumably it was / is desireable and wanted.
Reality is that they were born at a particular time and live(d) through it, no more or less, identifying them through cheap rheotoric as somehow the cause of their accident of birthdate, and of their working life context, is silly, and smacks of envy at its worst.
There's a big age gap between one of my brothers and me, he got full boomership through an accident of birthdate and I couldn't be happier for him as much as I am for others I don't know from Adam (or Eve), His property track record, pension, etc put my position in the shade, however he just made the best of opportunities that arose and I've tried to do the same, is that not what most of us end up doing with our own accidents of birthdate?
Shift happens, get on with getting on and if possible try not to begrudge others if they appear to be more fortunatPersonally I can't see any form of envy as worth the effort, an entirely unhelpful and negative way of looking at life.
It's always put down to envy, in reality some is but often it's also just cold hard economics when arguing for changes. <snip>Reality is that they were born at a particular time and live(d) through it, no more or less, identifying them through cheap rheotoric as somehow the cause of their accident of birthdate, and of their working life context, is silly, and smacks of envy at its worst.
There's a big age gap between one of my brothers and me, he got full boomership through an accident of birthdate and I couldn't be happier for him as much as I am for others I don't know from Adam (or Eve), His property track record, pension, etc put my position in the shade, however he just made the best of opportunities that arose and I've tried to do the same, is that not what most of us end up doing with our own accidents of birthdate?
Shift happens, get on with getting on and if possible try not to begrudge others if they appear to be more fortunatPersonally I can't see any form of envy as worth the effort, an entirely unhelpful and negative way of looking at life.
Sure, there are some people who want to discuss the issues not the people, apart from your good self where are they?
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
My own take on this subject was that companies running several rental properties might be seen as "professional landlords" or "proper businesses" whereas private BTL had become the financial go-to for every Tom, Dick and Harry who could scrape together the deposit for a BTL mortgage. I remember the situation well where Mrs Smith could plop down her deposit, mortgage up to the ears and rent out the property using the rent to pay the mortgage, perhaps with a bit left over as the mortgage interest qualified for full tax relief. It wasn't really doing anything constructive in the UK economy and certainly wasn't beneficial for the UK economy. 98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
if you hold the properties in a LTD company you can still claim the mortgage interest as a cost, like any business related loan, because its obviously a cost.Lets be honest and call it what it was, it was just a tax grab and headline grabber against a group of property owners that had no way of fighting back. Was it intended to cool prices? help FTBs? Its certainly done neither of those.
Myself like many landlords just stuck the rents up to cover that shortfall which during the previous few years when interest rates were low, it wasnt too bad from a tenants perspective. Now with iterest rate relief tapered back to basic rate tax deduction levels and higher interest rates, rents have obviously ballooned.
The other obvious problem in the UK is net migration. Quick google suggest it was 672,000 last year while there were about 230,000 homes built.
Take a look at Ireland for the consequences of this.
Paddymcc said:
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
if you hold the properties in a LTD company you can still claim the mortgage interest as a cost, like any business related loan, because its obviously a cost.havoc said:
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
HA's are not-for-profit.If you can't see why that is a different case, then there's absolutely no point in us having a debate...
BandOfBrothers said:
Paddymcc said:
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
if you hold the properties in a LTD company you can still claim the mortgage interest as a cost, like any business related loan, because its obviously a cost.98elise said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Paddymcc said:
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
if you hold the properties in a LTD company you can still claim the mortgage interest as a cost, like any business related loan, because its obviously a cost.98elise said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Paddymcc said:
98elise said:
Why wasn’t it applied to all landlords then, including housing associations? What was special about private landlords?
if you hold the properties in a LTD company you can still claim the mortgage interest as a cost, like any business related loan, because its obviously a cost.Not forgetting you then have to file a corporate tax rerturn each year plus a set of accounts.
And on top of that, you have the hassle of getting a BTL mortgage through a newly incorporated company.
Zj2002 said:
Was having that conversation with a mate the other day who was moaning about the 6% ADS were he to move house. I suggested putting his 3 BTLs into a Ltd co, however the CGT may exceed the ADS - catch 22.
If he's moving his personal residence there's no ADS if he sells before he buys the new one, and ADS reimbursed when he sells it, if he buys the new one before selling the current one. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff