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[twinturboz]

Icahn at it again open letter to Apple http://www.streetinsider.com/Hedge+Funds/Icahn+Pos...

[walm]

twinturboz said:

Icahn at it again open letter to Apple http://www.streetinsider.com/Hedge+Funds/Icahn+Pos...

Those FILTHY LONGS - trying to drive the price up AGAIN.
Disgusting behaviour.

It's co-ordinated raids and wild speculation like this that diminishes confidence in the markets...

All it takes is one analyst to read this and maybe change his mind...

[twinturboz]

To be honest as a long term Apple holder I'm all for it. There isn't a lot there that I would disagree with, although where he pulled that $203 figure from no idea.

Maybe I'm holding a totally biased view but it always seemed to be Wall St has treated Apple differently it doesn't command the same P/E as it's peers. Constantly gets beat down on good earnings while others have poor earnings and get rewarded.

His fundamental point is the company is undervalued and under appreciated, whilst I'm not his biggest fan he serves a purpose for Apple longs.

[walm]

twinturboz said:

To be honest as a long term Apple holder I'm all for it.

That's my whole point.
Most people are long.
So they overlook stock promotion but find someone suggesting a stock might be overvalued to be abhorrent and break out the tin-foil hats.

[twinturboz]

walm said:

That's my whole point.
Most people are long.
So they overlook stock promotion but find someone suggesting a stock might be overvalued to be abhorrent and break out the tin-foil hats.

Ahh I see. Sorry brain fried today it's been a brutal market this week. Just chop chop chop. Things seems different this time round expected yesterdays bounce to hold.

[CRB14]

walm said:

That's my whole point.
Most people are long.
So they overlook stock promotion but find someone suggesting a stock might be overvalued to be abhorrent and break out the tin-foil hats.

Ok, so we're clear then. Somebody repeatedly spreading false or unfounded info on a share in an attempt to drive the price down for their own benefit is ok is it? I haven't read the Apple letter but it looks fairly lengthy. I'd hazard a guess that whoever wrote it hasn't based his conclusions on bks information.

I'm not specifically referring to BB posts more so the self proclaimed journalists and bloggers that seem to release a perpetual stream of 'research' notes. The likes of Motley Fool and the FT are as bad as any.

Edit: I note WRN's CEO felt the need to release a statement on libellous comments on BBs. He must be talking out of his arse too.

Edited by CRB14 on Thursday 9th October 23:06

Edited by CRB14 on Thursday 9th October 23:14

[trashbat]

Well, it's a sea of red today. Everything I've looked at recently is down.

[walm]

CRB14 said:

Ok, so we're clear then. Somebody repeatedly spreading false or unfounded info on a share in an attempt to drive the price down for their own benefit is ok is it? I haven't read the Apple letter but it looks fairly lengthy. I'd hazard a guess that whoever wrote it hasn't based his conclusions on bks information.

I'm not specifically referring to BB posts more so the self proclaimed journalists and bloggers that seem to release a perpetual stream of 'research' notes.

I absolutely did not mean that.
Barefaced lies are not ok - either way.

The Apple letter is a bad example, sorry - it's just Icahn pushing for another buyback with his view on valuation.
But history is littered with overly promotional management teams or long investors promoting their own book and no one blinks an eye.
Someone short points out a fraud and they are eviscerated.

But - look at your own rhetoric - it is classically inflammatory.
"drive the price down for their own benefit"!!!! Sounds EVIL.
Because obviously someone long trying to push the stock up is doing it for the benefit of mankind!!
IT IS JUST THE SAME.

When I read bloggers like Citron or Anonymous Analytics or Muddy Waters or John Hempton or Sahm Adrangi- they have an absolutely exemplary history of PROPER due diligence and fraud discovery.
Yet people STILL CAST THEM AS VILLAINS.

If they were running blogs which only focused on good undervalued companies where they wanted to boost the price up - they would be lauded.

I would love to see some of this "false and unfounded info" because that is slam-dunk market abuse.
Whenever I investigate these alleged falsehoods they are more often than not based on perfectly legitimate and utterly reasonable interpretations of facts.
If they were blatantly lying they would be in prison or paying massive fines at the very least.

Let's look at some of the examples where there were significant bear articles that the longs cried were "unfounded".

Enron. (I could probably stop right there - this is such a fantastic example of shorts being proved very very publicly right.)
Sino Forest. (The forest wasn't there.)
Autonomy. (HP are idiots.)
China MediaExpress. (Advertising on airport buses!!)
China Educaton Alliance
etc...

Please give me some examples of these bloggers/journalists - I would love to uncover some more shorts.

TL;DR Promoting a long is just as selfish as promoting a short.

[Oakey]

WRN Suspended!

[Jonboy_t]

fking carnage this morning! What's going on?!?

[trashbat]

Jonboy_t said:

fking carnage this morning! What's going on?!?

Looks like a nice day to buy to me

Edit: and with that, I've bought a load of Fiat, the thing that got me into this into the first place. Get behind me, AIM!

Edited by trashbat on Friday 10th October 11:30

[twinturboz]

Jonboy_t said:

fking carnage this morning! What's going on?!?

Roll over effect of what's going on with the US markets?

Markets have seemed to changed character, on the other side of the pond we're breaking some long term trendlines. On past occasions is been buy the dip and the bulls have been rewarded in doing so not too sure if thats going to hold true this time round. Feels like a sell the rip market for now, I know every time the market falls a bit the usual suspects come out and say watch out were going to do a 2008 again or were on the verge of a massive correction, but generally 14% corrections are normal in bull markets.

I have no idea if this is just going to be a large correction or if the bull market is close to the end stages.


Speaking of Citron research they see go pro at $20 within 12 months.

Anyone see the Tesla D stats 0-60 in 3.2 thats supercar performance.

Edited by twinturboz on Friday 10th October 11:55

[twinturboz]

Jonboy_t said:

fking carnage this morning! What's going on?!?

Roll over effect of what's going on with the US markets?

Markets have seemed to changed character, on the other side of the pond we're breaking some long term trendlines. On past occasions is been buy the dip and the bulls have been rewarded in doing so not too sure if thats going to hold true this time round. Feels like a sell the rip market for now, I know every time the market falls a bit the usual suspects come out and say watch out were going to do a 2008 again or were on the verge of a massive correction, but generally 14% corrections are normal in bull markets.

I have no idea if this is just going to be a large correction or if the bull market is close to the end stages.


Speaking of Citron research they see go pro at $20 within 12 months.

Anyone see the Tesla D stats 0-60 in 3.2 thats supercar performance.

Edited by twinturboz on Friday 10th October 12:10

[Pete102]

Oakey - you may or may not be pleased to hear I took up a small position in WRN yesterday (90p). Obviously hoping the talk of takeover surrounding WRN has a positive impact, however, my stake isnt big enough to get worried out about lol.

For all its faults, its a roller coaster of a share

Also please to see AAPl making small gains lately - this is where the majority of my money is.

[Oakey]

Pete102 said:

Oakey - you may or may not be pleased to hear I took up a small position in WRN yesterday (90p). Obviously hoping the talk of takeover surrounding WRN has a positive impact, however, my stake isnt big enough to get worried out about lol.

For all its faults, its a roller coaster of a share

Also please to see AAPl making small gains lately - this is where the majority of my money is.

Ah, so it's all your fault! The curse of the PI strikes again!

I notice people on those boards are spinning this positively with wild talk of £10+ a share. Any of our more enlightened posters able to shed some insight as to what could potentially happen here.

[CRB14]

walm said:

I absolutely did not mean that.
Barefaced lies are not ok - either way.

The Apple letter is a bad example, sorry - it's just Icahn pushing for another buyback with his view on valuation.
But history is littered with overly promotional management teams or long investors promoting their own book and no one blinks an eye.
Someone short points out a fraud and they are eviscerated.

But - look at your own rhetoric - it is classically inflammatory.
"drive the price down for their own benefit"!!!! Sounds EVIL.
Because obviously someone long trying to push the stock up is doing it for the benefit of mankind!!
IT IS JUST THE SAME.

When I read bloggers like Citron or Anonymous Analytics or Muddy Waters or John Hempton or Sahm Adrangi- they have an absolutely exemplary history of PROPER due diligence and fraud discovery.
Yet people STILL CAST THEM AS VILLAINS.

If they were running blogs which only focused on good undervalued companies where they wanted to boost the price up - they would be lauded.

I would love to see some of this "false and unfounded info" because that is slam-dunk market abuse.
Whenever I investigate these alleged falsehoods they are more often than not based on perfectly legitimate and utterly reasonable interpretations of facts.
If they were blatantly lying they would be in prison or paying massive fines at the very least.

Let's look at some of the examples where there were significant bear articles that the longs cried were "unfounded".

Enron. (I could probably stop right there - this is such a fantastic example of shorts being proved very very publicly right.)
Sino Forest. (The forest wasn't there.)
Autonomy. (HP are idiots.)
China MediaExpress. (Advertising on airport buses!!)
China Educaton Alliance
etc...

Please give me some examples of these bloggers/journalists - I would love to uncover some more shorts.

TL;DR Promoting a long is just as selfish as promoting a short.

Don't get me wrong I completely see the point you are making and there are no doubt some very well respected journos around undertaking some detailed and analytical research.

I don't want to go into too much detail however, last week there was a fairly well known blogger touting that a certain company had failed to submit year end accounts for a number of their subsidiary companies. The allegation was that, according to the Companies House website, more than 18 or so companies had failed to submit annual reports and that as a consequence of this there's obviously something to hide.

On the face of it the information was in part correct. The Companies House website did show that a number of accounts hadn't been submitted. What the blogger did not however confirm was a) that Companies House are behind on updating their website and that b) all accounts were in fact submitted on or before the deadline.

To me this kind of 'reporting' is spreading false information and trying to spread fear amongst investors. For what purpose I have no idea but to me at least it seems like there's more to this kind of reporting that meets the eye. They can no doubt hide behind the fact that CH was behind on updating the website.

On the reverse we see the likes of Gowex. Somebody clearly did a cracking job in exposing such a fraud. I do find it difficult though to to ever read a piece and wonder if there's some kind of alterior motive. This could just be my pessimistic approach to life.

[gaz1234]

We're wrn suspended before?

[gaz1234]

Sml thoughts?

[gaz1234]

Can someone explain why my small buy showed as a sell on the website ?

[trashbat]

gaz1234 said:

Can someone explain why my small buy showed as a sell on the website ?

It's not unusual.

When you buy/sell, it's recorded quite crudely as the price and volume, not whether it was a buy or sell. It's then matched against often inaccurate bid/ask prices for the same point in time, and the nature of the transaction is guessed based on that. It generally explains this on the trades page.