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NORTS said:
Anyone invested in Tesla? seem on a sharp down but would expect to recover in the long term?
I have a small short position, looking to flip it long this week purely from a technical pov. Should target 217 soon but below 177 and I'd get out the way. Long term it's a tough one, from a stock perspective it's hugely overvalued, recent drop i.e. this week is because Musk said China sales were weak.
Unrelated how many fx guys just got wiped on euro, crazy moves this morning all over the place in all markets.
twinturboz said:
NORTS said:
Anyone invested in Tesla? seem on a sharp down but would expect to recover in the long term?
I have a small short position, looking to flip it long this week purely from a technical pov. Should target 217 soon but below 177 and I'd get out the way. Long term it's a tough one, from a stock perspective it's hugely overvalued, recent drop i.e. this week is because Musk said China sales were weak.
I've got some KAZ which i've been holding as a medium term play. After that fall and seeing these prices i'm considering buying some more at these levels and hanging on to them for a year or more.
A bit late to the party with this but thinking about getting a bit of Tesco to put away for a bit. I was looking around 190p although didn't fancy getting in before the announcements. The price seems fairly robust in these market conditions.
I also fancy some oil for a good few months to year. It's just a case of what price i'd be willing to pay. If it ever went to something stupid like $20/barrel i'd put all my money into it and hold.
A bit late to the party with this but thinking about getting a bit of Tesco to put away for a bit. I was looking around 190p although didn't fancy getting in before the announcements. The price seems fairly robust in these market conditions.
I also fancy some oil for a good few months to year. It's just a case of what price i'd be willing to pay. If it ever went to something stupid like $20/barrel i'd put all my money into it and hold.
I know it's not shares as such, but the CHF movement of yesterday seems to have sent some brokers down the pan.
For example: http://www.alpari.co.uk/client-updates/notificatio...
For example: http://www.alpari.co.uk/client-updates/notificatio...
On the above CHF note, what's the client liability with CFDs and spread bets?
So let's suppose I short a share, with £1000 in my account. The shares goes up in value in small amounts until my position is closed by the broker, having used my account balance.
But let's suppose I short the Swiss Franc, and it falls off a cliff one morning, exposing me to what would be multi-thousand pound losses before the broker can actually execute.
Do I have any liability beyond the account balance under typical terms?
So let's suppose I short a share, with £1000 in my account. The shares goes up in value in small amounts until my position is closed by the broker, having used my account balance.
But let's suppose I short the Swiss Franc, and it falls off a cliff one morning, exposing me to what would be multi-thousand pound losses before the broker can actually execute.
Do I have any liability beyond the account balance under typical terms?
trashbat said:
Do I have any liability beyond the account balance under typical terms?
Not 100% sure but my understanding is YES!!!!I use ig.com.
They offer two potential stops - a regular one and a guaranteed one.
The spread on the guarantee product is much higher.
Take their forward crude product at around 4800 pips today.
The regular spread is 4pips but the guaranteed spread is +/-2pips (i.e double).
But the benefits are obvious. I simply cannot lose more than is in my account.
In fact, my account is specifically set up such that I HAVE to use the guaranteed stop.
So to answer your question you can have other accounts where you have the regular stop but it is not guaranteed so if you have a huge step down then you are liable for the lot.
They will stop you out asap but can't guarantee where.
On the guaranteed stop they are still stopping you out much lower but THEY take the hit.
Ta.
I've heard of regular vs guaranteed, but I wasn't sure whether the scope of that was constrained to the account balance. So for instance, suppose you have an account balance of £2000, with a maximum loss set at £1000, but the actual movement is £3000. It might have been that regular = £2000 loss (account wipeout), guaranteed = £1000 loss, and you're not liable beyond the balance.
I'm only asking out of curiosity - I have no such products myself.
I've heard of regular vs guaranteed, but I wasn't sure whether the scope of that was constrained to the account balance. So for instance, suppose you have an account balance of £2000, with a maximum loss set at £1000, but the actual movement is £3000. It might have been that regular = £2000 loss (account wipeout), guaranteed = £1000 loss, and you're not liable beyond the balance.
I'm only asking out of curiosity - I have no such products myself.
olly22n said:
This is my understanding too, my fear is that not enough people really comprehend how quickly and easily you can lose many multiples of your deposit.
Essentially slippage is the problem.This is what IG say (my bold):
What's the difference between Guaranteed Stops and Non-Guaranteed Stops?
Guaranteed stops
Guaranteed stops protect you against slippage and therefore are the most effective way to put an absolute cap on any potential losses.
When you open a position, you specify the level at which you want it to be closed should the market move against you. In return for a small premium, we will guarantee to close your position at that exact point, even if the market moves suddenly.
With a limited-risk position (a position with a guaranteed stop attached), your maximum possible loss is known as soon as you place the deal, making it an extremely effective risk management tool.
Non-Guaranteed stops
Non-Guaranteed stops can help manage risk without incurring the premium associated with a guaranteed stop.
A Non-Guaranteed stop will trigger an order to close your position once the selected level has been breached.
However, you should be aware that it will sometimes not be possible for the stop order to be transacted at the price you have selected. This may happen overnight or when the market moves very quickly. In these cases the order will be transacted at a worse, and sometimes much worse, level than you have selected. This is known as slippage, and is determined on a basis which we believe to be fair and reasonable.
olly22n said:
This is my understanding too, my fear is that not enough people really comprehend how quickly and easily you can lose many multiples of your deposit.
Hence the warnings "you can lose more than your original deposit" on all the spread betting adverts you see 
People who don't trade with stop losses or with non-guaranteed stops expose themselves to huge risks when the market gaps like CHF yesterday or when companies release unexpected data, etc.
trashbat said:
Ta.
I've heard of regular vs guaranteed, but I wasn't sure whether the scope of that was constrained to the account balance. So for instance, suppose you have an account balance of £2000, with a maximum loss set at £1000, but the actual movement is £3000. It might be that regular = £2000 loss (account wipeout), guaranteed = £1000 loss, and you're not liable beyond the balance.
I'm only asking out of curiosity - I have no such products myself.
No - you choose up front: guaranteed or not.I've heard of regular vs guaranteed, but I wasn't sure whether the scope of that was constrained to the account balance. So for instance, suppose you have an account balance of £2000, with a maximum loss set at £1000, but the actual movement is £3000. It might be that regular = £2000 loss (account wipeout), guaranteed = £1000 loss, and you're not liable beyond the balance.
I'm only asking out of curiosity - I have no such products myself.
With guarantee the loss can only be £1,000 (but you pay a higher spread).
With no guarantee your balance will drop to NEGATIVE £1,000 (=£2,000-£3,000) which you have to pay. (If not, they will then do all the usual good stuff (court, CCJ, bailiffs etc...) I am sure!)
You have to pay for the slippage unless you choose a guarantee up front.
FXCM 
Looks like another broker in trouble.
"FXCM INC, the biggest retail foreign-exchange broker in the U.S. and Asia, said in a statement that the unprecedented volatility in the euro against the Swiss franc triggered losses that left it with a negative equity balance of about $225 million and that it was trying to shore up its capital."
Looks like another broker in trouble.
"FXCM INC, the biggest retail foreign-exchange broker in the U.S. and Asia, said in a statement that the unprecedented volatility in the euro against the Swiss franc triggered losses that left it with a negative equity balance of about $225 million and that it was trying to shore up its capital."
I received the following from Oanda. They're a good bunch. I'm curious about what exactly the bold bit entailed.
'Early on January 15, 2015, the Swiss National Bank (SNB) sent global financial markets into turmoil with a surprise move to eliminate its three-year-old cap on the franc (CHF).
In the wake of this unprecedented market event, OANDA demonstrated its ongoing commitment to doing right by its clients. Despite suffering losses and vanishing liquidity in the institutional hedging market, OANDA remained true to its 14-year legacy of transparency, integrity and fairness to our clients. OANDA did not re-quote or amend any CHF cross client trades. We even took the further step of forgiving all negative client balances that were caused when clients could not close out their positions fast enough (where permitted by regulations).
As a very well capitalized broker, we are proud to report that it is business as usual at OANDA: client trading, deposits and withdrawals are processing normally.
OANDA is proud of its strong reputation for fairness and integrity. We thank our customers for their continued loyalty and welcome new traders who want to experience outstanding service and execution.
Specific questions about individual fxTrade accounts will be addressed by our Client Experience team via http://www.oanda.com/corp/contact/.
Thank you for trading with OANDA'
'Early on January 15, 2015, the Swiss National Bank (SNB) sent global financial markets into turmoil with a surprise move to eliminate its three-year-old cap on the franc (CHF).
In the wake of this unprecedented market event, OANDA demonstrated its ongoing commitment to doing right by its clients. Despite suffering losses and vanishing liquidity in the institutional hedging market, OANDA remained true to its 14-year legacy of transparency, integrity and fairness to our clients. OANDA did not re-quote or amend any CHF cross client trades. We even took the further step of forgiving all negative client balances that were caused when clients could not close out their positions fast enough (where permitted by regulations).
As a very well capitalized broker, we are proud to report that it is business as usual at OANDA: client trading, deposits and withdrawals are processing normally.
OANDA is proud of its strong reputation for fairness and integrity. We thank our customers for their continued loyalty and welcome new traders who want to experience outstanding service and execution.
Specific questions about individual fxTrade accounts will be addressed by our Client Experience team via http://www.oanda.com/corp/contact/.
Thank you for trading with OANDA'
Shaoxter said:
olly22n said:
This is my understanding too, my fear is that not enough people really comprehend how quickly and easily you can lose many multiples of your deposit.
Hence the warnings "you can lose more than your original deposit" on all the spread betting adverts you see People who don't trade with stop losses or with non-guaranteed stops expose themselves to huge risks when the market gaps like CHF yesterday or when companies release unexpected data, etc.
Guaranteed stops are just a marketing tool. No one really uses them and the few that do and who trade with any form of regularity cannot win as the costs are too far above the std dev of daily range on that market.
Plus, GS' are not available in size as the upfront fee needs to cover average slippage.
As for the original question re losses, yes, the client will owe negative balances.
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