Spread betting as a full time occupation...
Discussion
Timmy35 said:
ShadownINja said:
Timmy35 said:
Bolebroke said:
Eat like a sparrow, shiit like an elephant...
I have absolutely no idea what that phrase means, but I think I'll adopt it anyway. Edited by ShadownINja on Wednesday 28th July 16:20
ShadownINja said:
Timmy35 said:
ShadownINja said:
Timmy35 said:
Bolebroke said:
Eat like a sparrow, shiit like an elephant...
I have absolutely no idea what that phrase means, but I think I'll adopt it anyway. Edited by ShadownINja on Wednesday 28th July 16:20
Timmy35 said:
walm said:
Prop trading and fund managing are totally different worlds and a lot of people fail to grasp this.
This is true. To make more of a distinction most traders deal with flow, they are executing orders for clients or executing orders that are part of a larger structure. Prop traders are relatively few in number. Although lots of desks that aren't supposed to prop trade do to an extent.
Fund managers sit around all day having ultra long lunches in expensive restaurents talking about football with pension fund managers and insurance company treasurers.;)
walm said:
I am not picking a fight, but these two comments are entirely inconsistent...
The VAST majority will lose money. Hence your professional sportsman analogy, which is entirely apt.
Again I come back to risk-reward. If you are prepared to lose everything i.e. 100% of capital (or more), then the rewards can of course be in the 100's of per cent.
The question was what is a reasonable amount of capital to start with.
Clearly 7% is too low if you are prepared to take on significantly more than market risk (and lever up), but I think 900% is preposterously high.
How much would you start with?
Sorry those points do appear inconsistent but they made sense in context. I think it would be better as "Anyone who trades futures successfullywill return 100's of % per year on capital used"R11ysf said:
Anyone who trades futures will return 100's of % per year on capital used.
R11ysf said:
What your have to realise is that most traders lose money.
What you mean is that SOME traders will return 100's of % on capital. The extremely successful ones.The VAST majority will lose money. Hence your professional sportsman analogy, which is entirely apt.
Again I come back to risk-reward. If you are prepared to lose everything i.e. 100% of capital (or more), then the rewards can of course be in the 100's of per cent.
The question was what is a reasonable amount of capital to start with.
Clearly 7% is too low if you are prepared to take on significantly more than market risk (and lever up), but I think 900% is preposterously high.
How much would you start with?
Spreadbetting can be a good lifestyle for many people. If you want to make 200k+ then you are best not doing it from home, you are better going to a trading arcade and paying a desk fee for level 1 access and news flow. To trade spreadbetting from home and want to make 25k (as the OP seemed to suggest) I would say you need to start with 10k and be willing to lose it all. Then if after 6 months you still have the 10k you *should* have learned enough to make money.
As people have mentioned risk management is key when it is your own cash. People who don't understand what scalping is call it punting and usually because they can't do it. It is hard to quantify why some scalpers make money and some don't, but i can tell you from experience if you understand what your 'edge' is you can make money. Consistently. I have a very good friend who had 4 down days 2 years ago. Last year he had about 20 but earned twice as much by pushing boundaries. If you 'get it' then it is a great lifestyle, if you are one of the many who don't then you waste money and learn nothing except 'those guys are just punting'.
As for
Bolebroke said:
Full-time spraed betting with your own money will ALWAYS end in ruin.
3 quick observations. 1 - What makes plumbers / taxi-drivers / retired soldiers think they can trade FX or cocoa on a leveraged basis? 2 - 85% of day traders lose money. why do you think spread betting is tax free ? Perhaps it has something to do with the HMR&C not wishing to have all spread betters reclaiming their losses...and, finally, 3 - have you ever met any real traders ? the kind of guys who make money are not the sort of guys who make a quick buck and sit back happy....the level of commitment, greed and energy required is very unusual....fortunately...
This is a bit of a rude view in my opinion. What makes taxi-driver think they can trade FX? Well what makes you think they can't? As I've said before scalping is mostly 'feel'. I have met a guy who had 8 figure years trading bonds yet if you asked him to value a bond he probably couldn't even tell you what it was. If you can trade you can trade - it doesn't matter if it was a bond, stock, FX or even cars. You "see" things.3 quick observations. 1 - What makes plumbers / taxi-drivers / retired soldiers think they can trade FX or cocoa on a leveraged basis? 2 - 85% of day traders lose money. why do you think spread betting is tax free ? Perhaps it has something to do with the HMR&C not wishing to have all spread betters reclaiming their losses...and, finally, 3 - have you ever met any real traders ? the kind of guys who make money are not the sort of guys who make a quick buck and sit back happy....the level of commitment, greed and energy required is very unusual....fortunately...
Don't be so quick to write people off - don't forget Terry Crawley started as a carpet fitter before taking over £30m out the markets.
Does he mean the crossover index? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITraxx
Bolebroke said:
Yes - as wiki says....it's what we traders use for credit trading nowadays - a synthetic index referencing a basket of credit in various forms - senior credit, financial and xover being the major ones......bit like the BUND future as a proxy for cash trading
I don't understand how he could have invented it.Guvna said:
NoelWatson said:
Bolebroke said:
Someone had to !
And that someone would most likely be someone like Markit, not an individual. Bolebroke said:
As ever with such things..the germ of an idea issues from one man's mind and a number of clients and colleagues develop and implement it...great product don't you think ..? It kept a lot of the CDO desks in business and allowed the corrolation boys to buy some nice cars...
It still doesn't make a lot of sense for one person to have invented it when you look at how they were originally traded. One or two people inventing the CPDO - that is a different story.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff