Spread betting as a full time occupation...
Discussion
Well not quite a month since I posted...
Researching and reading for a few days before placing my first bet with a mixture of nervousness and excitement.
I'd selected gold on daily spot and futures as my selected markets. Others (fx looked far to volatile for a beginner).
There has been a few downs, mainly when starting out and dabbling in stuff I'd no experience of (platinum and fx) but overall my profit is 30% that of my original investment...
Whether that'll will continue remains to be seen. I'm sceptical.
There have been moments where I've had to bite the bullet and close a position when it's moving against me to minimise my loss (that hurts), times I should have closed on a profit but waited for more only for for it never to come and leave me nursing a loss and times when my limited risk account starts me in a negative position and my limits haven't been high enough (the market moves past my stop point and recovers well leaving me out of pocket)...
Researching though is my friend and my last big wins have come off the back of reading what the experts are forecasting and being comfortable with ratios and the little and often mentality and not waiting for 'big' one to roll in.
It's nerve wracking though at times. I feel comfortable enough losing some of my disposable income. Doing it as a full-time occupation (either on my own or for a company, would be exceptionally difficult I think as if it goes wrong I've got no contingency).
Overall it's gone well. The IG index iPhone app has been invaluable at times as well.
Researching and reading for a few days before placing my first bet with a mixture of nervousness and excitement.
I'd selected gold on daily spot and futures as my selected markets. Others (fx looked far to volatile for a beginner).
There has been a few downs, mainly when starting out and dabbling in stuff I'd no experience of (platinum and fx) but overall my profit is 30% that of my original investment...
Whether that'll will continue remains to be seen. I'm sceptical.
There have been moments where I've had to bite the bullet and close a position when it's moving against me to minimise my loss (that hurts), times I should have closed on a profit but waited for more only for for it never to come and leave me nursing a loss and times when my limited risk account starts me in a negative position and my limits haven't been high enough (the market moves past my stop point and recovers well leaving me out of pocket)...
Researching though is my friend and my last big wins have come off the back of reading what the experts are forecasting and being comfortable with ratios and the little and often mentality and not waiting for 'big' one to roll in.
It's nerve wracking though at times. I feel comfortable enough losing some of my disposable income. Doing it as a full-time occupation (either on my own or for a company, would be exceptionally difficult I think as if it goes wrong I've got no contingency).
Overall it's gone well. The IG index iPhone app has been invaluable at times as well.
f13ldy said:
Well not quite a month since I posted...
Researching and reading for a few days before placing my first bet with a mixture of nervousness and excitement.
I'd selected gold on daily spot and futures as my selected markets. Others (fx looked far to volatile for a beginner).
There has been a few downs, mainly when starting out and dabbling in stuff I'd no experience of (platinum and fx) but overall my profit is 30% that of my original investment...
Whether that'll will continue remains to be seen. I'm sceptical.
There have been moments where I've had to bite the bullet and close a position when it's moving against me to minimise my loss (that hurts), times I should have closed on a profit but waited for more only for for it never to come and leave me nursing a loss and times when my limited risk account starts me in a negative position and my limits haven't been high enough (the market moves past my stop point and recovers well leaving me out of pocket)...
Researching though is my friend and my last big wins have come off the back of reading what the experts are forecasting and being comfortable with ratios and the little and often mentality and not waiting for 'big' one to roll in.
It's nerve wracking though at times. I feel comfortable enough losing some of my disposable income. Doing it as a full-time occupation (either on my own or for a company, would be exceptionally difficult I think as if it goes wrong I've got no contingency).
Overall it's gone well. The IG index iPhone app has been invaluable at times as well.
I play fx. Not sure about the volatility comment. Some people only play volatility. If the market does not move then there is no play.Researching and reading for a few days before placing my first bet with a mixture of nervousness and excitement.
I'd selected gold on daily spot and futures as my selected markets. Others (fx looked far to volatile for a beginner).
There has been a few downs, mainly when starting out and dabbling in stuff I'd no experience of (platinum and fx) but overall my profit is 30% that of my original investment...
Whether that'll will continue remains to be seen. I'm sceptical.
There have been moments where I've had to bite the bullet and close a position when it's moving against me to minimise my loss (that hurts), times I should have closed on a profit but waited for more only for for it never to come and leave me nursing a loss and times when my limited risk account starts me in a negative position and my limits haven't been high enough (the market moves past my stop point and recovers well leaving me out of pocket)...
Researching though is my friend and my last big wins have come off the back of reading what the experts are forecasting and being comfortable with ratios and the little and often mentality and not waiting for 'big' one to roll in.
It's nerve wracking though at times. I feel comfortable enough losing some of my disposable income. Doing it as a full-time occupation (either on my own or for a company, would be exceptionally difficult I think as if it goes wrong I've got no contingency).
Overall it's gone well. The IG index iPhone app has been invaluable at times as well.
Winning is good and losing is not. The longer you play the less it feels good or not if you are position sizing correctly. 4 years in and all I think about is my emotional attachment to trades or positions. If I think I need to win then I get out. Which is just discipline I guess. I used to do the research and read lots, now I dont bother. I look for patterns or movement or volatility. If I see patterns I recognise or movement/volatility I like then I play. My win rate is high BUT my Risk : Reward is in the market's favour as its typically 2 - 2.5 : 1 so my win rate needs to be high or I would go broke quickly.
Its only in the last 6 months I have become consistently profitable and that might end who knows. Prior to that I used to revenge trade or increase leverage after a loss. It can work a few times but then you end up in an emotional black hole and your money disappears rapidly. So now I dont look for good days. I just avoid bad days. I tell myself I dont have bad days any more. Bad days are for newbies. I am no newbie.
Good luck if you keep going. Yes it can be done and yes you can make money.
f13ldy said:
Not for a company, but on your jack at home with your own cash.
Assuming a 6/12 month knowledge of markets and a reasonable initial investment of say circa £2k.
Do you think you could turn a profit of £1500 net a month?
Treating it as a full time occupation for say 6-7 hours a day.
I haven't read the whole thread but the answer is no. You will just lose your seed capital.Assuming a 6/12 month knowledge of markets and a reasonable initial investment of say circa £2k.
Do you think you could turn a profit of £1500 net a month?
Treating it as a full time occupation for say 6-7 hours a day.
If you have recieved any material saying that you can they are shysters who'll take the money that the broker doesn't get.
I had a go at this last year, as I've successfully managed to miss every other opportunity that came my way, I took a risk. I took some equity out of the house and played with it from Jan 2009 until the middle of this year.
I turned a big gamble with 5 figures into just short of 7 figures in this period, self assessment will be interesting for 2009/2010.
It was all done with High Street Bank shares too, getting in & out at just about the right time, but gambling nearly everything each time.
BP was my final share where I got in at 299.64 and sold at 380, if I'd held on another week it would've been 7 figures plus in my account now.
I was petrified at points even after I repaid the stake (about 3 weeks).
Those days are unlikely to be seen again and as I was and still am a bit of a novice, I now realise that I don't have a clue what I'm doing and having cleared all debt with £500k in the bank it's happy days.
I turned a big gamble with 5 figures into just short of 7 figures in this period, self assessment will be interesting for 2009/2010.
It was all done with High Street Bank shares too, getting in & out at just about the right time, but gambling nearly everything each time.
BP was my final share where I got in at 299.64 and sold at 380, if I'd held on another week it would've been 7 figures plus in my account now.
I was petrified at points even after I repaid the stake (about 3 weeks).
Those days are unlikely to be seen again and as I was and still am a bit of a novice, I now realise that I don't have a clue what I'm doing and having cleared all debt with £500k in the bank it's happy days.
okgo said:
Impressive, Loon.
Cheers, but it actually only involved about eight trades. I was helped by a massive surge in one share, which saw the best part of a 6 fold increase in 6 months and the BP collapse & surge was another bonus.The other ones were icing on the cake tbh.
Don't think I'd be able to do it again, nor would I want to try. 18 months of being a bag of nerves even though it was all working out OK, alongside a stressful day job didn't make for a happy bunny.
g4ry13 said:
Did you use a lot of leverage on your trades? Or did you actually pay 100% of the position value?
I just bought the shares, selling the lot at a figure I was happy with and buying back when it fell to right level. The bit above actually means nothing to me! I figured I could ride out the storm if I owned them indefinitely anyway, rather than betting on things going up & down in a fixed timeframe.I got BP on Mon 28th June. I was watching it fall and decided a couple of weeks earlier to put an advance order in if it dropped below 299.9. It started rising and I put a 380 sell on it immediately, as I was out of the country for a few weeks afterwards. It took no time to get there and I did OK. I still wish I'd held on, but it all worked out and everyhting is in cash in an accout now, as I've lost my bottle and everyone is talking recession again.
Many would start to think they're some kind of trading god and give it all back.I can't really imagine to work "full-time" as spread betting expert. I think it's quite hard to make a living out of it. I am sure you can earn money but I suppose that it could be really tough in the beginning because you need to gain experience and get to know the market. I've only placed some point-spread bets so far and it was quite a task to compare odds and spotsbooks.
wilmo, is that sports trading, then? Never heard of "point-spread bets". I have a dabble over the weekends on football ("soccer") games around the world - I might sit here for hours as over 300 games are played to spot opportunities in Betfair's market; usually there are 5 or 6 over the weekend. Seems to be working but it's pocket money rather than a living as I'm not 100% sure I have anything or if it's purely luck.
Edited by ShadownINja on Tuesday 19th October 15:56
R1 Loon said:
I had a go at this last year, as I've successfully managed to miss every other opportunity that came my way, I took a risk. I took some equity out of the house and played with it from Jan 2009 until the middle of this year.
I turned a big gamble with 5 figures into just short of 7 figures in this period, self assessment will be interesting for 2009/2010.
It was all done with High Street Bank shares too, getting in & out at just about the right time, but gambling nearly everything each time.
BP was my final share where I got in at 299.64 and sold at 380, if I'd held on another week it would've been 7 figures plus in my account now.
I was petrified at points even after I repaid the stake (about 3 weeks).
Those days are unlikely to be seen again and as I was and still am a bit of a novice, I now realise that I don't have a clue what I'm doing and having cleared all debt with £500k in the bank it's happy days.
2008-2009 were very extreme years and provided record returns for all sorts of different funds and individuals. Turning 90k into 900k is some serious trading though. If only done in 6 or so trades is quite spectacular and when done alongside a day job.I turned a big gamble with 5 figures into just short of 7 figures in this period, self assessment will be interesting for 2009/2010.
It was all done with High Street Bank shares too, getting in & out at just about the right time, but gambling nearly everything each time.
BP was my final share where I got in at 299.64 and sold at 380, if I'd held on another week it would've been 7 figures plus in my account now.
I was petrified at points even after I repaid the stake (about 3 weeks).
Those days are unlikely to be seen again and as I was and still am a bit of a novice, I now realise that I don't have a clue what I'm doing and having cleared all debt with £500k in the bank it's happy days.
May I ask what you do as a day job to not think it was worth giving up when you've just made £3/4 million in a 'side trading' account?
R11ysf said:
2008-2009 were very extreme years and provided record returns for all sorts of different funds and individuals. Turning 90k into 900k is some serious trading though. If only done in 6 or so trades is quite spectacular and when done alongside a day job.
May I ask what you do as a day job to not think it was worth giving up when you've just made £3/4 million in a 'side trading' account?
It was £70K into £850KMay I ask what you do as a day job to not think it was worth giving up when you've just made £3/4 million in a 'side trading' account?
Thanks for the comment on the "spectacular", it was a hell of a lot more than I was expecting, but was focussed on High St Bank shares, primarily Barclays which got swept up in the volatility, but was never going to take taxpayers money so a much better bet, RBS was more of a risk, but I had my stake back before I went into them.
I've held various roles in Financial Services, but mainly general insurance, so no expert in the Stock Market. I based my buy & sell on past experience and "gut feel". The volatility meant being in & out around the right time was all it took.
As for giving up my job, I'm paid quite nicely, so this is a very useful lump of money, but no way could I retire on it and I don't believe I'm good enough to pick another set of volatile shares, or see a similar market again in my lifetime.
R1 Loon said:
R11ysf said:
2008-2009 were very extreme years and provided record returns for all sorts of different funds and individuals. Turning 90k into 900k is some serious trading though. If only done in 6 or so trades is quite spectacular and when done alongside a day job.
May I ask what you do as a day job to not think it was worth giving up when you've just made £3/4 million in a 'side trading' account?
It was £70K into £850KMay I ask what you do as a day job to not think it was worth giving up when you've just made £3/4 million in a 'side trading' account?
Thanks for the comment on the "spectacular", it was a hell of a lot more than I was expecting, but was focussed on High St Bank shares, primarily Barclays which got swept up in the volatility, but was never going to take taxpayers money so a much better bet, RBS was more of a risk, but I had my stake back before I went into them.
I've held various roles in Financial Services, but mainly general insurance, so no expert in the Stock Market. I based my buy & sell on past experience and "gut feel". The volatility meant being in & out around the right time was all it took.
As for giving up my job, I'm paid quite nicely, so this is a very useful lump of money, but no way could I retire on it and I don't believe I'm good enough to pick another set of volatile shares, or see a similar market again in my lifetime.
R11ysf said:
Well done. As you rightly recognised it was a market of a generation and only the brave, smart and stupid piled in when everyone else was running scared. That is a fantastic return and something so be very proud of. Now all you've got to do is choose the motorised toy to buy with it!
Already done sort of.I've stayed in the car scheme at work, although a nice shiny 335Ci with all the trimmings is on the drive, along with a new BMW S1000RR and a tricked up R1 trackbike. Wifey got a new Subaru Impreza WRX STi Prodrive thingy and a shiny converted horsebox for her equestrianism. Oh and I bought my mum a better villa abroad and a new 325C1 and a new X5 for me when I go over.
Other bits were paying off the mortgages on 6 of the 40 odd propeties abroad too.
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