The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread
Discussion
fizz47 said:
I've just ordered 28 ZEP1s from Guy...
Really looking forward to how they look once completed- will report back in due course...
Zep1s are great. got 4 in our bathroom and the light the give of is really nice. Gonna be getting 6 more when we re-plaster our kitchen ceiling.Really looking forward to how they look once completed- will report back in due course...
baxb said:
460 Lumen from 5w is very impressive, I would be interested to see some independant photometric data to back this up & if it's true it would be amongst the best on the market.
So would I. Don't believe it for one minute. What are the 'hot' lumens? We tested something similar (from LightRabbit whoever they are) recently that was mentioned on this site. LUX level was 1900 at 50cms which we thought initially was pretty impressive but within an hour, the lamp was too hot to touch and the LUX level had dropped to 600. Essentially then, as it got hotter it lost 75% of the light output.E36GUY said:
baxb said:
460 Lumen from 5w is very impressive, I would be interested to see some independant photometric data to back this up & if it's true it would be amongst the best on the market.
So would I. Don't believe it for one minute. What are the 'hot' lumens? We tested something similar (from LightRabbit whoever they are) recently that was mentioned on this site. LUX level was 1900 at 50cms which we thought initially was pretty impressive but within an hour, the lamp was too hot to touch and the LUX level had dropped to 600. Essentially then, as it got hotter it lost 75% of the light output.only one I have seen claiming that is Toshiba (http://ledsreview.com/news/367/)
E36GUY said:
baxb said:
460 Lumen from 5w is very impressive, I would be interested to see some independant photometric data to back this up & if it's true it would be amongst the best on the market.
So would I. Don't believe it for one minute. What are the 'hot' lumens? We tested something similar (from LightRabbit whoever they are) recently that was mentioned on this site. LUX level was 1900 at 50cms which we thought initially was pretty impressive but within an hour, the lamp was too hot to touch and the LUX level had dropped to 600. Essentially then, as it got hotter it lost 75% of the light output.Please help. I'm really not with it at all on this subject.
I have about 10 MR16's in the kitchen, these are wired to 2 transformers(?) in the ceiling space above. Not on dimmers.
I'd like to replace these bulbs with LED's. But in the past whenever I've done any research on t'internet, I've been put off by people saying how harsh the light is.
I want a natural/warm light, is this now possible? If so any recommendations as to which brand and the best place to buy?
I have about 10 MR16's in the kitchen, these are wired to 2 transformers(?) in the ceiling space above. Not on dimmers.
I'd like to replace these bulbs with LED's. But in the past whenever I've done any research on t'internet, I've been put off by people saying how harsh the light is.
I want a natural/warm light, is this now possible? If so any recommendations as to which brand and the best place to buy?
Edited by A57 HSV on Monday 7th April 16:25
oyster said:
Why on earth would I buy those ZEP1 lights?
£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
Thats what I keep saying but it goes over everyones heads. The only way to save money with LEDs is to leave them on all the while, which defeats the object. You could well spend £1000 per year on halogen lighting or £200 per year on LEDs but switch off the halogens when you don't need them and it will probably cost you £150 per year, its bizarre.£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
You don't have to.
However, the difference in build quality and light output is far greater than the difference in cost of the cheap LED GU10 stuff. I base this on having both running side by side in my kitchen and utility room.
If you're starting from scratch, it makes sense as I don't think the payback times are all that long, however as a retrofit, I can see your point to some extent.
The light output from the ZEP1's are quite different to halogen, they're softer so shadows are a lot less distinct, non-existent in my setup, which makes it a lot more comfortable to use work surfaces.
However, the difference in build quality and light output is far greater than the difference in cost of the cheap LED GU10 stuff. I base this on having both running side by side in my kitchen and utility room.
If you're starting from scratch, it makes sense as I don't think the payback times are all that long, however as a retrofit, I can see your point to some extent.
The light output from the ZEP1's are quite different to halogen, they're softer so shadows are a lot less distinct, non-existent in my setup, which makes it a lot more comfortable to use work surfaces.
NH1 said:
oyster said:
Why on earth would I buy those ZEP1 lights?
£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
Thats what I keep saying but it goes over everyones heads. The only way to save money with LEDs is to leave them on all the while, which defeats the object. You could well spend £1000 per year on halogen lighting or £200 per year on LEDs but switch off the halogens when you don't need them and it will probably cost you £150 per year, its bizarre.£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
LED justifications a bit borderline at the moment as a retrofit purely on the economics, but for new fit (or desired improvement in light levels) where fitting cost is irrelevant it's pretty much a no brainer. Like repeated extensively throughout this thread you do need to be choosy with the product though.
oyster said:
Why on earth would I buy those ZEP1 lights?
£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
There is a significant special price for PHers Oyster. Don't take what u see on line as an indication £40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
baxb said:
460 Lumen from 5w is very impressive, I would be interested to see some independant photometric data to back this up & if it's true it would be amongst the best on the market.
I'm not sure you're being entirely upfront with us though Rob, as you've introduced yourself as Chris on another post (which happens to be the same first name as the owner of energysavingled according to their website) & someone has asked you how the world of selling lightbulbs is ? I agree that the world of LED companies has more than its fair share of dodgy products & claims of longevity/light ouputs & if i've put 2 & 2 together & got 4 then i'm not sure how much I would rely on your product claims without some independant UK test data to back them up.
I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree. I just copy and pasted details from a car dealer onto the forum who had a pretty common name. I'm not sure you're being entirely upfront with us though Rob, as you've introduced yourself as Chris on another post (which happens to be the same first name as the owner of energysavingled according to their website) & someone has asked you how the world of selling lightbulbs is ? I agree that the world of LED companies has more than its fair share of dodgy products & claims of longevity/light ouputs & if i've put 2 & 2 together & got 4 then i'm not sure how much I would rely on your product claims without some independant UK test data to back them up.
I don't sell any bulbs of any description, i'm just saying which company and product i use for my clients.
The company sent me the photometric data before i started buying the products, if you want it ask them. I couldn't give a monkeys who any buys their stuff from, though i was being helpful, obviously not.
Guy can get on with selling his wares now. No other products work, apparently
Edited by lighting on Tuesday 8th April 11:38
E36GUY said:
You're right. Of course it's not true. I don't work at a designer and manufacturer of original LED light fittings so have neither have any idea of what I'm talking about nor technical backup to support my claims.
and there is absolutely no evidence by anyone remotely credible out there to prove you wrong? Ok. Edited by lighting on Tuesday 8th April 11:35
E36GUY said:
oyster said:
Why on earth would I buy those ZEP1 lights?
£40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
There is a significant special price for PHers Oyster. Don't take what u see on line as an indication £40 a pop. In my kitchen that's £320 (plus fitting by an electrician, so a total more like £600).
It would take me over 10 years to break even with the current halogens. And that's assuming none of them go bang in that time.
lighting said:
and there is absolutely no evidence by anyone remotely credible out there to prove you wrong? Ok.
Your statement categorically stated that I am wrong. Please feel free to show us on what basis? To be honest I would be genuinely delighted to be corrected. Claims for LED retrofits generally are not supported by any sort proper photometric data (if the seller even knows what that is). I would happily change my view of the retrofit market if a company offered me a product with proper supporting, verifiable data. But they don't so until that time.....
As to your other comment - for the avoidance of doubt, if you actually have a look at my posts on the subject you'll see I have never actually touted our product in PH. I only got involved with the Homes section as many PHers were posting questions about what LED this and what LED that. I have only ever offered what I hope has been useful information with regards the dos and don'ts of LED technology in relation to heat-sinking, LED Bin selection, drivers, dimmers etc so that PHers can make a more informed choice instead of getting bamboozled by the shear volume of carp that is peddled on the internet as quality. If that has prompted some PHers to try our gear then that's wonderful but any selling that goes on in here is purely down to recommendation from satisfied customers. Other suppliers are indeed available such as Aurora, JCC, Photonstar and Collingwood to name a few.
I stand by my opinion that proper fittings are the only viable solution to a like for like light output to any 50W halogen. For the time being at least. I shall obtain one of the lamps that you linked to and test it here. If it's claims are genuine then I will happily fess up publicly. I'd love to know what 'award' this lamp won. Curiously that particular link doesn't work. Hmmm.
Edited by E36GUY on Tuesday 8th April 14:49
It is clear that the product that E36GUY sells is a high quality product with many satisfied customers and he certainly knows his stuff.
But many consumers just want to replace their 50w halogen GU10 with something cheap that will do the job, so talking about ZEP1s does not help these people. E.g. a house I bought to rent out has 4 or 6 way GU10 spotlights in every room and costs a fortune for the tenants to run so I've used ledhut 4w LED replacements at a fiver each and they are fine.
But many consumers just want to replace their 50w halogen GU10 with something cheap that will do the job, so talking about ZEP1s does not help these people. E.g. a house I bought to rent out has 4 or 6 way GU10 spotlights in every room and costs a fortune for the tenants to run so I've used ledhut 4w LED replacements at a fiver each and they are fine.
What's peoples views on the information on this article?
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/2...
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/2...
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