The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread
Discussion
hairyben said:
If you're unsure and especially if you're particular I'd advise investing in a couple first and trying (or buying something like a couple of megaman 6w GU10's in both 2800k and 4000k), stringing up on a lead to a plug and seeing how it looks.
People and environments are very particular- I've just fitted a load of 4000k to a house and it looks ideal with the decor, in particular it transformed the previously dingy bathroom (matt white paint and darkish limestone) that soaked up a frankly daft for the roomsize 600w of LV halogen light and the homeowner was ecstatic.
Her friend and neighbour had the same fittings in the warmer 3000k again to replace LV halogen and finds them cold and "pinkish" (although her husband thinks it's an improvement)
A lot of people think warmer colours are better as they seem "cosy" or simply as thats what they're used to, some will want to cling to what they're used to and others will embrace something different once you demonstrate it to them. Personally I think the slightly colder colours reduce eyestrain by increasing the contrast so stops you straining to look at something which makes them ideal in bathrooms or working rooms. 3500-4000k in particular can achieve this without looking too "hospital waiting room" like the more common 6000+k.
Although you can have too much choice, I've even seen LED tape with alternate warm and cold white LED's and user-controlled blending to create whatever shade of white you like! I'm sure most people will also "get used" to whatevers there so long as it's well specced.
Thanks, I think I'll do what you suggest. It's definitely going to be trial and error. I think I'll also have to trawl lighting showrooms when I get a moment, to start making proper comparisons. The lighting in my current study is so poor (single pendant 60w bulb, a desk lamp and a floor lamp) that I have nothing decent to compare the proposed LEDs to!People and environments are very particular- I've just fitted a load of 4000k to a house and it looks ideal with the decor, in particular it transformed the previously dingy bathroom (matt white paint and darkish limestone) that soaked up a frankly daft for the roomsize 600w of LV halogen light and the homeowner was ecstatic.
Her friend and neighbour had the same fittings in the warmer 3000k again to replace LV halogen and finds them cold and "pinkish" (although her husband thinks it's an improvement)
A lot of people think warmer colours are better as they seem "cosy" or simply as thats what they're used to, some will want to cling to what they're used to and others will embrace something different once you demonstrate it to them. Personally I think the slightly colder colours reduce eyestrain by increasing the contrast so stops you straining to look at something which makes them ideal in bathrooms or working rooms. 3500-4000k in particular can achieve this without looking too "hospital waiting room" like the more common 6000+k.
Although you can have too much choice, I've even seen LED tape with alternate warm and cold white LED's and user-controlled blending to create whatever shade of white you like! I'm sure most people will also "get used" to whatevers there so long as it's well specced.
My friend has had 10 GU10 mains downlights installed in his kitchen and every week I go rounnd his house a different bulb has blown. Without reading 17 pages what the best option here.
Also in a room at my home I have 6 12v 20w GU10 size downlighters controlled by 2 transformers and in the last 10 years not one of the bulds has blown.
Cant seem to find much on 12v anymore why are they not used much?
Also in a room at my home I have 6 12v 20w GU10 size downlighters controlled by 2 transformers and in the last 10 years not one of the bulds has blown.
Cant seem to find much on 12v anymore why are they not used much?
Edited by PAULJ5555 on Friday 9th May 08:47
The LED GU10's will last longer than halogens. I've 30 in our office, two have recently blown, but that's after 2 years use. They're not getting the claimed 50,000 hours life, which is pretty much what E36GUY said all along.
Anyway, going back to the colour temp question, definitely go with the warmer colours, my office GU10's are daylight balanced and they're horrible, harsh and nasty, and makes your eyes go funny. I've got a 2700K desk lamp just to try to balance things out a bit.
If I was doing it again, I'd go for E36GUY's ZEP1's, but probably fewer, as they give off a much more diffused light than GU10's, so the 12 lamps in my main office could probably be reduced to 8 ZEP's, and still give a brighter environment.
Anyway, going back to the colour temp question, definitely go with the warmer colours, my office GU10's are daylight balanced and they're horrible, harsh and nasty, and makes your eyes go funny. I've got a 2700K desk lamp just to try to balance things out a bit.
If I was doing it again, I'd go for E36GUY's ZEP1's, but probably fewer, as they give off a much more diffused light than GU10's, so the 12 lamps in my main office could probably be reduced to 8 ZEP's, and still give a brighter environment.
I've been running these Ikea GU10's for a few months now:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/3025409...
They offer a very similar colour light to the halogens I replaced and feel just as bright. I couldn't give any figures on actual energy savings though as I replaced all the lighting in the property with LEDs as soon as I moved in.
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/3025409...
They offer a very similar colour light to the halogens I replaced and feel just as bright. I couldn't give any figures on actual energy savings though as I replaced all the lighting in the property with LEDs as soon as I moved in.
PAULJ5555 said:
My friend has had 10 GU10 mains downlights installed in his kitchen and every week I go rounnd his house a different bulb has blown. Without reading 17 pages what the best option here.
Also in a room at my home I have 6 12v 20w GU10 size downlighters controlled by 2 transformers and in the last 10 years not one of the bulds has blown.
Cant seem to find much on 12v anymore why are they not used much?
You & your mate have two options, easy/cheap is to fit LED lamps, megaman 6w/410 lumens is one of the best about right now. (I notice they have a 7w too now) If you want to improve the light and or are thinking the long term then sealed LED fittings can surpass the quality and level of light avaliable from LED retro-fit-bulbs currently avaliable Also in a room at my home I have 6 12v 20w GU10 size downlighters controlled by 2 transformers and in the last 10 years not one of the bulds has blown.
Cant seem to find much on 12v anymore why are they not used much?
Edited by PAULJ5555 on Friday 9th May 08:47
12v LED's exist but if you're converting to LED lamps the smart option would be to rip out the transformers & fit GU10 lamp connectors or sealed LED fittigns as above... If thats a faff you want some LEDs rated at about 300 lumens such as: http://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-dim-refled-gu5-... to replace the 20w's but you up the wattage if you want more light.
only other thing to watch is colour temps, you want 2700 or 2800k to match the warmth of halogen, 3000 or 4000 for cooler/crisper light that many prefer esp. in kitchens, bathrooms, workshops etc, 6000k can be almost ghostly blue and is a bit much for many people.
I'm interested in having recessed 10 low-energy lights fitted in a single-story kitchen extension with Celotex (100mm?) between the joists, some of it is vaulted so I'd need angled fittings. I'm not sure if there's any air gap above the celotex, I took photo's during the build which I'll try to dig out.
What's the requirement for cooling, for conventional GU10's and for LED versions. How would an electrician remove enough celotex through an 80mm cut-out, for example, and how would it affect insulation, and would I need fire-rated and/or IPx4?
What's the requirement for cooling, for conventional GU10's and for LED versions. How would an electrician remove enough celotex through an 80mm cut-out, for example, and how would it affect insulation, and would I need fire-rated and/or IPx4?
-Pete- said:
I'm interested in having recessed 10 low-energy lights fitted in a single-story kitchen extension with Celotex (100mm?) between the joists, some of it is vaulted so I'd need angled fittings. I'm not sure if there's any air gap above the celotex, I took photo's during the build which I'll try to dig out.
What's the requirement for cooling, for conventional GU10's and for LED versions. How would an electrician remove enough celotex through an 80mm cut-out, for example, and how would it affect insulation, and would I need fire-rated and/or IPx4?
Both need at least a couple of inches of airspace- halogens will overheat and LED's will run hotter leading to premature failure in both. Ideally the celotex should be removed during instalation but I presume you're talking about retro-fitting them? If so it's possible abiet messy to break up enough insulation through the cut-out.What's the requirement for cooling, for conventional GU10's and for LED versions. How would an electrician remove enough celotex through an 80mm cut-out, for example, and how would it affect insulation, and would I need fire-rated and/or IPx4?
Another option if you have an apex is to run a track end to end, they can look great with many different lights (short or long stem spots, hanging pendants etc), very customisable and adaptable especially 3 circuit versions.
hairyben said:
You & your mate have two options, easy/cheap is to fit LED lamps, megaman 6w/410 lumens is one of the best about right now. (I notice they have a 7w too now) If you want to improve the light and or are thinking the long term then sealed LED fittings can surpass the quality and level of light avaliable from LED retro-fit-bulbs currently avaliable
12v LED's exist but if you're converting to LED lamps the smart option would be to rip out the transformers & fit GU10 lamp connectors or sealed LED fittigns as above... If thats a faff you want some LEDs rated at about 300 lumens such as: http://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-dim-refled-gu5-... to replace the 20w's but you up the wattage if you want more light.
only other thing to watch is colour temps, you want 2700 or 2800k to match the warmth of halogen, 3000 or 4000 for cooler/crisper light that many prefer esp. in kitchens, bathrooms, workshops etc, 6000k can be almost ghostly blue and is a bit much for many people.
Thanks for the detailed reply, I will have to look into these sealed LED fittings as I'm having the house extended in a few months.12v LED's exist but if you're converting to LED lamps the smart option would be to rip out the transformers & fit GU10 lamp connectors or sealed LED fittigns as above... If thats a faff you want some LEDs rated at about 300 lumens such as: http://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-dim-refled-gu5-... to replace the 20w's but you up the wattage if you want more light.
only other thing to watch is colour temps, you want 2700 or 2800k to match the warmth of halogen, 3000 or 4000 for cooler/crisper light that many prefer esp. in kitchens, bathrooms, workshops etc, 6000k can be almost ghostly blue and is a bit much for many people.
another recommendation for ecoled: I have just installed 6x zep2 installations in my newly constructed garden building - they are not cheap (about twice the price of zep1s!) - but they flood the room with light (it is only 3.4m2).
One of my reasons for picking the zep2 model is they have a low profile (67mm + 20mm for air circulation) which is very handy in a garden office/shed being built to fit in the 2.5m height limit for permitted development, since ceiling height is at a premium.
I am using them with a lightwaverf dimmer and the leds dim perfectly without any flicker even at the lowest level. The picture shows them dimmed in full daylight.
One of my reasons for picking the zep2 model is they have a low profile (67mm + 20mm for air circulation) which is very handy in a garden office/shed being built to fit in the 2.5m height limit for permitted development, since ceiling height is at a premium.
I am using them with a lightwaverf dimmer and the leds dim perfectly without any flicker even at the lowest level. The picture shows them dimmed in full daylight.
Right, I know some smartalec will say "not GU10", but this is the best place to ask.
The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
shtu said:
Right, I know some smartalec will say "not GU10", but this is the best place to ask.
The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
Wow thats over 1kw of lighting.The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
I'd buy a few different types of MR16 from here and send back the ones I don't like.
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/mr16-led-bulbs...
I bought one of these MR16 bulbs to test, however the retaining clip won't fit over the bulb in my existing holders. What's the best option for this? To be honest the original holders have yellowed over time, so I'd like a satin finish. Any ideas? 
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/mr16-led-bulbs...
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/mr16-led-bulbs...
Nick_MSM said:
I bought one of these MR16 bulbs to test, however the retaining clip won't fit over the bulb in my existing holders. What's the best option for this? To be honest the original holders have yellowed over time, so I'd like a satin finish. Any ideas?
http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/mr16-led-bulbs...
Replace the holders? http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/mr16-led-bulbs...
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lighting/Low+Volta...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-fixed-round-low-volt...
Edited by garycat on Wednesday 21st May 16:10
shtu said:
Right, I know some smartalec will say "not GU10", but this is the best place to ask.
The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co.uk/l/lamps/led-lighting-systems/led-lamps/master-ledspot-lv/929000194102_eu//The house I'm in just now uses lighting tracks, thanks to a fair amount of open beams, and other ceilings that mean recessed fittings are a non-starter. In the kitchen, that means 23, 50 watt MR16 downlighters. Tracks are typically mounted on the underside of the beams, with transformers here, there, and everywhere on the top.
Any suggestions on suitable replacement LED fittings?
The above are very, very good. Side-by-side with a conventional 50W halogen, both the brightness and light distribution are virtually indistinguishable, and the colour temperature is very nice as well. They work fine with my existing transformer as well. Highly recommended if you want a retrofit.
ETA: It might be the 10W that I've got; can't quite remember.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 22 May 12:24
Great thread, Pistonheads is such as useful resource for just about everything.
We are having our bathroom renovated soon and want to replace the current ceiling light with LED downlights. I like the idea of the ZEP1’s, but I’d like a bit of advice to make sure I have my understanding correct so as I don’t get bamboozled by sparky’s trying to pedal their own wares
Do you need a power supply for each light/ can you get power supplies which power multiple lights?
Is Light, powersupply and switch everything you need?
Do you need a special low voltage switch (bathroom pull cord switch)?
Can you position the lights above a shower?
Can LED lights be left on for hours on end. as we usually leave our bathroom light on at night for the kids?
Finally can anyone suggest how many lights I would need for our tiny tiny bathroom; aprox. 2m x 2m with a diagonal wall with the door cutting a corner off.
Cheers
We are having our bathroom renovated soon and want to replace the current ceiling light with LED downlights. I like the idea of the ZEP1’s, but I’d like a bit of advice to make sure I have my understanding correct so as I don’t get bamboozled by sparky’s trying to pedal their own wares
Do you need a power supply for each light/ can you get power supplies which power multiple lights?
Is Light, powersupply and switch everything you need?
Do you need a special low voltage switch (bathroom pull cord switch)?
Can you position the lights above a shower?
Can LED lights be left on for hours on end. as we usually leave our bathroom light on at night for the kids?
Finally can anyone suggest how many lights I would need for our tiny tiny bathroom; aprox. 2m x 2m with a diagonal wall with the door cutting a corner off.
Cheers
Not sure if the ZEP1's are suitable for the bathroom, E36GUY will advise I'm sure .
For the size room you have though, one would be adequate, 2 plenty. You don't need a special light switch as it's all mains until you reach the power supply(s) at the lamp itself.
You could use one power supply for more than one lamp, but you'd have to make sure it was capable of handling the current draw, taking into account a little voltage drop due to longer cables on the low voltage side. E36GUY supplied me with one PSU per lamp.
.For the size room you have though, one would be adequate, 2 plenty. You don't need a special light switch as it's all mains until you reach the power supply(s) at the lamp itself.
You could use one power supply for more than one lamp, but you'd have to make sure it was capable of handling the current draw, taking into account a little voltage drop due to longer cables on the low voltage side. E36GUY supplied me with one PSU per lamp.
I have a single 100W ceiling mounted light in the bathroom - looking to swap for E36GUY's ZEP1's
But how many would you fit in the bathroom ? - room dimensions are about 3m x 2m (bath length)
I was thinking 2 above the bath long ways, one in the middle of the room and one offset to the opposite end of the bath ?
But how many would you fit in the bathroom ? - room dimensions are about 3m x 2m (bath length)
I was thinking 2 above the bath long ways, one in the middle of the room and one offset to the opposite end of the bath ?
Our bathroom is just over 3m square and is lit by four Zep1s. Unless you were cnsidering performing open heart surgery you'd be mad (or partially blind) to describe it as being under-lit. We could very easily have used fewer fittings (but are very happy with what we did).
They are on the same circuit and have their own indivivual drivers).
I'd email or ring Guy for specific answers.
They are on the same circuit and have their own indivivual drivers).
I'd email or ring Guy for specific answers.
following on to the link above for ledhut, i purchased several http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/gu10-led-bulbs...
some cool white, some warm white. there are 6 in our bathroom and possibly too many, but here is a pic. Very happy with them TBH.
some cool white, some warm white. there are 6 in our bathroom and possibly too many, but here is a pic. Very happy with them TBH.
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