The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread

[Gazzab]

slight off topic.... I have a couple of Zep1 s in the downstairs cloakroom but due to the shape of the room etc I only have lighting at one end. I have therefore run a cable that will will allow me to install another light at the far end of the room. But it has a concrete ceiling (the stairs are cast concrete) so the light needs to be installed into a wooden frame of a cupboard I plan to commission. I dont know what type of light I can fit bearing in mind it will be on the same circuit as the two Zeps. I assume it will need to be LED and with a similar driver

As an example I wonder if this non-driver light might work….
http://www.davey-lighting.co.uk/catalogue_item.php...

[markbigears]

Just a heads up, popped in to wickes today, they have on offer 5.3w GU10 for £3.99 each. Not sure of colour temp, but might be worth a punt for someone. I'm on a LED upgrade and have started replacing my GU10 with Philips 5w and they good, look equal to 50w bulbs I took out, if not a tad brighter.

[Max M4X WW]

Anyone used these Bell GU10's? My uncle has done his whole house out and they look pretty good to me..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bell-GU10-Warm-White-Degre...

I may want the 6W versions though.

[aberdeeneuan]

koosh said:

i just replaced 3 lamps in my bathroom (2 normal and one 3xSMD led outputting a different color light) with 3 duracell lamps which i bought from the discount aisle in asda a while ago for £1 each. supposed to last 25,000 hours and have an output of 4w if i remember correctly. there is a slight difference in overall color in the room but its a small bathroom and they are perfect for what it is / the cost. i can only assume they will pay for themselves very quickly at £3....

also noticed screwfix is selling a box of 6 (or 10) LAP led GU10's for £20.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-lamps-281lm...

considering buying to have in the cupboard just incase... cant go wrong at £3.30 a lamp....

Just fitted those screwfix ones in our upstairs landing. Light is a little more clinical than the old ones but not so you'd notice. Asked my wife which i done when I'd swapped half over and she couldn't tell the difference!

[RossP]

Just put the screwfix ones in my kitchen. They're great!

[E36GUY]

RossP said:

Just put the screwfix ones in my kitchen. They're great!

I'm glad you are all happy with the Screwfix lamps but I will point out that 281 lumen is pretty poor, they are not even a replacement for a 35W halogen (usually around 350) despite what it says on the box.

[RossP]

E36GUY said:

RossP said:

Just put the screwfix ones in my kitchen. They're great!

I'm glad you are all happy with the Screwfix lamps but I will point out that 281 lumen is pretty poor, they are not even a replacement for a 35W halogen (usually around 350) despite what it says on the box.

That might be the case but they are at least as bright as the GU10 50W bulbs that I took out.

[cuneus]

E36GUY said:

RossP said:

Just put the screwfix ones in my kitchen. They're great!

I'm glad you are all happy with the Screwfix lamps but I will point out that 281 lumen is pretty poor, they are not even a replacement for a 35W halogen (usually around 350) despite what it says on the box.

I don't care what it says on the box - they are a very good replacement

[aberdeeneuan]

RossP said:

That might be the case but they are at least as bright as the GU10 50W bulbs that I took out.

Seconded. I had some standard gu10 and these alongside and you really couldn't tell the difference.

[E36GUY]

RossP said:

That might be the case but they are at least as bright as the GU10 50W bulbs that I took out.

Listen, please don't get me wrong. I'm not looking for an argument with you chaps but as someone that actually works in the field as a manufacturer of specialist architectural grade LED products I have a reasonably informed position from which to provide opinion. Something that is only 280 lumens cannot be as bright as a 500ish lumen 50W. They simply can't be. It's physics.

An LED light source might look as bright when observed but it is a very intense light source and can trick the eye into thinking it's just as bright but it isn't. In terms of the amount of light they provide over distance, the LUX level, is where they will fall down. I'm not making this up!

[PeterTTT]

E36GUY
Whats you view on CRI and LED lights? Is it an important factor in choosing LED Lights?
Thanks
Peter

[E36GUY]

PeterTTT said:

E36GUY
Whats you view on CRI and LED lights? Is it an important factor in choosing LED Lights?
Thanks
Peter

Absolutely! CRI is Colour Rendering Index. In LED this tends to be higher with warm white colours but essentially, the higher the CRI (to 100 max), the better real colours look under that light. Reds, Blues, Greens etc will all look more lustrous under a higher number. A lower number has a noticable blanching effect on these types of colour. Next time you go to the butcher, notice the meat is presented under a pink light. This red end of the spectrum makes your beef look dense and bloody. It's a trick!

Of late I have noticed lighting hungry businesses like hair salons rightly changing to LED to save energy and money but then getting it all wrong by being all lit up with cool white temperatures. As an industry that deals heavily in colour, this shows how little attention is being given to the lighting as this is completely the wrong colour for them to be working under. A lady's (or gents if that's your thing) hair colour will look completely different as soon as they step outside. Hopefully better under the higher CRI of daylight but notwithstanding, hair salons should give consideration to this.

Most white LEDs start as a blue light chip then a phosphor (the yellow you see over the top) is applied which changes the colour. LEDs up to a CRI of around 80 will have started life as blue. 90+ CRI will have started life as Red (with the phosphor added) and tend to be more expensive.

For most people, 80 CRI would be more than adequate.

The other thing to mention here in addition to CRI is Macadam Elipse. Briefly, this is a measure of how closely matched one LED's colour will be to another in terms of colour temperature. The higher the number of steps, the less match you are likely to get so even if lamps state 3000k temperature, you could see a variation +/- 500K which is visible to the eye if a higher step is in place.

This is will be especially noticable from products at the lower end of the market such as GU10 LED retrofits and cheaper down light fixtures. Not to look directly at but you will likely see different shades of white when they 'cone' onto a wall. Case in point below:



Architectural lighting companies will/should employ LED with a lower step Macadam Elipse thus a more consistent output. And that is what you pay for and the explanation to those wondering why company a is more expensive than company b for what the layman assumes is a similar product.

[C0ffin D0dger]

Are these worth the extra dosh then due to the high CRI being claimed: http://well-lit.co.uk/product/7w-dimmable-led-spot...

They are claiming to be a near identical replacement for a 50W halogen GU10. Looks good on paper - CRI 95, 345 lumens, 2700k (warm white).

[RossP]

E36GUY said:

Listen, please don't get me wrong. I'm not looking for an argument with you chaps but as someone that actually works in the field as a manufacturer of specialist architectural grade LED products I have a reasonably informed position from which to provide opinion. Something that is only 280 lumens cannot be as bright as a 500ish lumen 50W. They simply can't be. It's physics.

An LED light source might look as bright when observed but it is a very intense light source and can trick the eye into thinking it's just as bright but it isn't. In terms of the amount of light they provide over distance, the LUX level, is where they will fall down. I'm not making this up!

I am sure you are right and you know a lot more than I do. However, I can say that my kitchen is just as well lit now as it was with the 50W GU10s. So, for £20 I'm happy and saving electricity.

[E36GUY]

C0ffin D0dger said:

Are these worth the extra dosh then due to the high CRI being claimed: http://well-lit.co.uk/product/7w-dimmable-led-spot...

They are claiming to be a near identical replacement for a 50W halogen GU10. Looks good on paper - CRI 95, 345 lumens, 2700k (warm white).

As I said, a high CRI just comes from a red base LED and is usually more expensive. In itself, it's not an indicator of quality. As the specialists they claim to be they should know 345lumen is not a 50W replacement so really, the product isn't anything special.

I would also note that that website you link is a trading name of another limited company which has a current net worth of -£22000 and a quick search of the Patent office shows they hold no patent on the tech they use. It may well be patented but not by them! They have no current stock and last accounts show creditors due within one year as only £7000. So, they are either cash rich and pay for everything up front (unlikely) or they are not a manufacturer at all. You should see the amount we spend on manufacturing and we're still a small outfit relative to the industry.

[Pheo]

Hey Guy,

We have ZEP1s in our kitchen right now and very happy with them.

Having the hallway plastered soon and wondering about ambience lighting. Thinking about maybe some LED strips in a profile sitting atop the stringer (I could route out a channel in some softwood and paint to match). But anything you've done previously that you think is good? This is a standard hallway in a 1970s ex council terrace, so nothing special - was just thinking about how to have better lighting for when we want it lit up well (considering some more Zep1s), but also something a little less bright for late evenings etc...

[PeterTTT]

Thanks for the lesson on CRI E36GUY ! When I get round to sorting the lighting in my house I shall be giving you a call.

[Gazzab]

Replaced the halogen mr16 bulbs with led versions from ledhut. They are to replace bulbs on a wire track light in my sons room. Had to replace the dimmer with a standard switch. Not checked them in the dark but seem pretty good with blinds closed on a dim winters day. Not as nice as the zep1s but there isn't any way to fit downlighters.

[Gazzab]

GY6.35 led bulbs bought for another low voltage cable light. Don't think they'll work well though. Kids tend to leave the lights on and so with led bulbs I'm hoping I'll not forever be turning them off!

[Gazzab]

Gazzab said:

Replaced the halogen mr16 bulbs with led versions from ledhut. They are to replace bulbs on a wire track light in my sons room. Had to replace the dimmer with a standard switch. Not checked them in the dark but seem pretty good with blinds closed on a dim winters day. Not as nice as the zep1s but there isn't any way to fit downlighters.

I take it back...the quality of light is ok but not great. The brightness is fine and the colour seems ok. But there is something not quite right. I can't quite explain. My son is happy with it though.