The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread
Discussion
E36GUY said:
Of late I have noticed lighting hungry businesses like hair salons rightly changing to LED to save energy and money but then getting it all wrong by being all lit up with cool white temperatures. As an industry that deals heavily in colour, this shows how little attention is being given to the lighting as this is completely the wrong colour for them to be working under.
This is fantastic advice. Bearing in mind the above, would you mind offering some guidance on lighting I'm looking to replace at home. Our electricity bills are pretty horrendous and I want to save some polar bears.I'm looking to buy GU10s for the kitchen area which have a colour temperature which will compliment food, and I would also like to change the bulbs in the dining area (which runs off the kitchen).
We currently have a 1 x 60w GLS (ES/E27 Screw type) and a light with 3 x 40w MAX Golf ball bulbs (SES/E14 Screw type).
I'm aiming for an A+ rating. If you're able to offer an advice it would be hugely appreciated.
rossmc88 said:
Dude. Seriously. These are 250 lumen. Not even a replacement for 35W halogen let alone 50.I've had these in my kitchen for the last few days:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00N3P4YME?psc=...
...and for the little they cost they're bloody good. Had been moaning to landlady there was insufficient light in there (single light fitting with 4 GU10s in centre of room) but she wasn't keen on paying for under cabinet lighting to be added. I thought I'd give these a go before paying for anything else out of my own pocket. They're (by eye) a good 25% brighter than any halogen bulbs I've tried and feel well made. Glare is not a problem unless looking directly into one.
That they should save money is a pleasant bonus.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00N3P4YME?psc=...
...and for the little they cost they're bloody good. Had been moaning to landlady there was insufficient light in there (single light fitting with 4 GU10s in centre of room) but she wasn't keen on paying for under cabinet lighting to be added. I thought I'd give these a go before paying for anything else out of my own pocket. They're (by eye) a good 25% brighter than any halogen bulbs I've tried and feel well made. Glare is not a problem unless looking directly into one.
That they should save money is a pleasant bonus.
Again, they will appear brighter as it's a more intense light source to the eye but in reality, if the quoted figure is accurate they are 20% down on a 50W halogen. You might well be getting a wider spread of light however which give you light in areas you've not had it before hence the appearance of brighter but the numbers are there to say it's not.
What is also not explained is whether the lumen output is hot lumens or cold lumens (LEDs will come on brighter initially and reduce a little when warmed up but you won't notice that) or whether that is the chip lumen figure (as it comes off the LED itself) or the lamp lumens (what is actually delivered post optic). In the absence of any legislation thus, most lamp sellers will quote the chip lumens as it's the greater number but is a bit misleading as sticking a frosted diffuser over could knock 50% off that. Just pointing it out is all. If you're happy then that is what matters.
What is also not explained is whether the lumen output is hot lumens or cold lumens (LEDs will come on brighter initially and reduce a little when warmed up but you won't notice that) or whether that is the chip lumen figure (as it comes off the LED itself) or the lamp lumens (what is actually delivered post optic). In the absence of any legislation thus, most lamp sellers will quote the chip lumens as it's the greater number but is a bit misleading as sticking a frosted diffuser over could knock 50% off that. Just pointing it out is all. If you're happy then that is what matters.
I've just replaced a couple of GU10 LED's in our office which have blown, so much for the 50,000 hour life, but I can't say E36GUY didn't warn all of us about that a long time ago
.
Anyway, the existing LED's are daylight balanced, and while a bit harsh, at least the light colour temperature is ok, paperwork etc looks natural. The two lamps I've just replaced are 'warm white', as I fancied toning down the starkness of the bright white daylight bulbs (white painted office too, like an ice cave
). In theory, warm white should be in the 3600 - 4200 Kelvin colour temp, so an orangey hue; these things I've bought are bright yellow, they're horrible.
Mind you, they're probably no worse than my CFL desk lamp which is also pretty nasty.
I might go back to daylight balanced, and get some posters or artwork up on the walls instead, as a means of getting some colour in the office.
.Anyway, the existing LED's are daylight balanced, and while a bit harsh, at least the light colour temperature is ok, paperwork etc looks natural. The two lamps I've just replaced are 'warm white', as I fancied toning down the starkness of the bright white daylight bulbs (white painted office too, like an ice cave
). In theory, warm white should be in the 3600 - 4200 Kelvin colour temp, so an orangey hue; these things I've bought are bright yellow, they're horrible.Mind you, they're probably no worse than my CFL desk lamp which is also pretty nasty.
I might go back to daylight balanced, and get some posters or artwork up on the walls instead, as a means of getting some colour in the office.
Super Slo Mo said:
I've just replaced a couple of GU10 LED's in our office which have blown, so much for the 50,000 hour life, but I can't say E36GUY didn't warn all of us about that a long time ago.
Anyway, the existing LED's are daylight balanced, and while a bit harsh, at least the light colour temperature is ok, paperwork etc looks natural. The two lamps I've just replaced are 'warm white', as I fancied toning down the starkness of the bright white daylight bulbs (white painted office too, like an ice cave). In theory, warm white should be in the 3600 - 4200 Kelvin colour temp, so an orangey hue; these things I've bought are bright yellow, they're horrible.
Mind you, they're probably no worse than my CFL desk lamp which is also pretty nasty.
I might go back to daylight balanced, and get some posters or artwork up on the walls instead, as a means of getting some colour in the office.
You won't get an orangey hue with 3600-4200, warm white is sub 3000k & to be orange you will want 2700 or less..Anyway, the existing LED's are daylight balanced, and while a bit harsh, at least the light colour temperature is ok, paperwork etc looks natural. The two lamps I've just replaced are 'warm white', as I fancied toning down the starkness of the bright white daylight bulbs (white painted office too, like an ice cave
). In theory, warm white should be in the 3600 - 4200 Kelvin colour temp, so an orangey hue; these things I've bought are bright yellow, they're horrible.Mind you, they're probably no worse than my CFL desk lamp which is also pretty nasty.
I might go back to daylight balanced, and get some posters or artwork up on the walls instead, as a means of getting some colour in the office.
baxb said:
You won't get an orangey hue with 3600-4200, warm white is sub 3000k & to be orange you will want 2700 or less.
It shouldn't really be yellow should it? They look like they're shining through piss. I would expect more red for a natural looking warmth. Generally when we 'warm up' live images in cameras, we add a little orange (i.e. reduce blue/increase yellow, and add red). Adding yellow by reducing blue (same thing) just looks a bit odd and jaundiced.
I don't know what the actual colour temp is although actually it varies over the course of a day outside anyway, but I was basing those figures above on the colour filters that cameras (video) have fitted to them. They're generally 3200K, 4300K, 6300K, and the latest cameras have 8000K filters. 3200K is for tungsten, 6300K for daylight, the 4300K is an 'in between' filter. There's usually enough colour adjustment anyway to cover the differences between each filter.
Super Slo Mo said:
baxb said:
You won't get an orangey hue with 3600-4200, warm white is sub 3000k & to be orange you will want 2700 or less.
It shouldn't really be yellow should it? They look like they're shining through piss. I would expect more red for a natural looking warmth. Generally when we 'warm up' live images in cameras, we add a little orange (i.e. reduce blue/increase yellow, and add red). Adding yellow by reducing blue (same thing) just looks a bit odd and jaundiced.
I don't know what the actual colour temp is although actually it varies over the course of a day outside anyway, but I was basing those figures above on the colour filters that cameras (video) have fitted to them. They're generally 3200K, 4300K, 6300K, and the latest cameras have 8000K filters. 3200K is for tungsten, 6300K for daylight, the 4300K is an 'in between' filter. There's usually enough colour adjustment anyway to cover the differences between each filter.
) then I would think they will be 3000k. But I have today been comparing one of our 4000k panels with a competitor product & been told mine looks yellow, which placed side be side it was slightly more yellow. The competitor product was also supposed to be 4000k, I have independant UK photometric data saying my panel was 4090k so would think the competitor was about 4500k, but put it next to a 3500k product (or 835 fluorescent tube) & my 4000k looks very white. As i've said before the temp range on cheap (under £5 each) GU10's will be all over the place, what's sold as 3000 will be anything from 2500-3500 & in many cases it will be worse i'm sure. I buy GU10's 5000 at time to use in commercial installations & pay more than £5 ea. for thembaxb said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'daylight balanced' the lamp should have a kelvin rating & how it appears to the eye will depend on what is around it, if they are shining through piss (think i'll nick that phrase ) then I would think they will be 3000k. But I have today been comparing one of our 4000k panels with a competitor product & been told mine looks yellow, which placed side be side it was slightly more yellow. The competitor product was also supposed to be 4000k, I have independant UK photometric data saying my panel was 4090k so would think the competitor was about 4500k, but put it next to a 3500k product (or 835 fluorescent tube) & my 4000k looks very white. As i've said before the temp range on cheap (under £5 each) GU10's will be all over the place, what's sold as 3000 will be anything from 2500-3500 & in many cases it will be worse i'm sure. I buy GU10's 5000 at time to use in commercial installations & pay more than £5 ea. for them
I'm sure they're not properly 'Daylight Balanced'.) then I would think they will be 3000k. But I have today been comparing one of our 4000k panels with a competitor product & been told mine looks yellow, which placed side be side it was slightly more yellow. The competitor product was also supposed to be 4000k, I have independant UK photometric data saying my panel was 4090k so would think the competitor was about 4500k, but put it next to a 3500k product (or 835 fluorescent tube) & my 4000k looks very white. As i've said before the temp range on cheap (under £5 each) GU10's will be all over the place, what's sold as 3000 will be anything from 2500-3500 & in many cases it will be worse i'm sure. I buy GU10's 5000 at time to use in commercial installations & pay more than £5 ea. for themThey probably do have a Kelvin rating, but they've been in for nearly 4 years and I threw the boxes away on day one. Colour temp is very white, in fact, during a normal overcast day, in the room with windows you can't tell if the lights are on, as the colour is very similar to daylight. To me that suggests colour temp is in the 5-6000K range, if not higher. Daylight is generally in the 5600 upwards range, particularly in shaded areas outside.
Maybe it's just because my 'warm' lamps are next to daylight coloured lamps. I wanted them to be warm, but the colour rendition of these is a bit unpleasant, but again, perhaps it's just because there's too much contrast between them and the white lamps, on their own they might look fine.
E36GUY said:
If you're happy then that is what matters.
Thanks E36GUY, good info.From the perspective of a complete layman they have met their intended purpose. I do not doubt for a minute that given time, research and money I could buy a vastly superior product but as a sort of experiment it's converted me.
When it comes to kitting out my own pad with lighting at some point in the future I shall aim for an 'all LED' building for sure
Come February I will hopefully be getting into my garage renovation, part of that is removing the windows in there so the lighting will be the only source of light when the door is closed, I'd like LED downlighters covering the double sized garage, thinking 9 or 12 should do, what's the best/cost effective kit to look for?
Having used LEDs for outside lights I know the brightness isn't quite as expected and I'll be polishing in there so colour accuracy would be nice.
Having used LEDs for outside lights I know the brightness isn't quite as expected and I'll be polishing in there so colour accuracy would be nice.
Timbergiant said:
Come February I will hopefully be getting into my garage renovation, part of that is removing the windows in there so the lighting will be the only source of light when the door is closed, I'd like LED downlighters covering the double sized garage, thinking 9 or 12 should do, what's the best/cost effective kit to look for?
Having used LEDs for outside lights I know the brightness isn't quite as expected and I'll be polishing in there so colour accuracy would be nice.
think you want 'panels', think there are some on ecoled website....?Having used LEDs for outside lights I know the brightness isn't quite as expected and I'll be polishing in there so colour accuracy would be nice.
Trustmeimadoctor said:
Gonna have some fine with some 9w cob gu10 tonight let's see what £1.90 gets me inc delivery
Huihuang electronics 6000-6500k 120° beam aparantly they make life easier daintier
Link?Huihuang electronics 6000-6500k 120° beam aparantly they make life easier daintier
Cob bulbs and GU10 bulbs are quite different?
Also, at that K rating they will be very white and quite harsh. I would tend to go with warm white in any domestic environment.
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