Insulation for suspended wooden floor

Insulation for suspended wooden floor

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mk1fan

10,523 posts

226 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
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Steffan said:
A structural engineer said to me years ago when we were refurbing a Victorian House with galloping dry rot ' You never see dry rot in a barn. Its because they are so well ventilated, no pools of still air.'

He was substantially correct: ventilation is the lifeblood of preserving timber in floors.
It's the space below the floor that needs venting not the floor joists.

ssray

1,102 posts

226 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
We have a 1930`s house on a hill with a void underneath of between 8-14ft, I filled the space underneath the floor in between the joists with expanded foam/urethane/celotex type board that I got for £2 per 10x4ft sheet from a recycling place near me.
I made sure all the air bricks were clear of any blockages etc which should allow enough flow to stop any rot.
It was well worth doing and i`m going to get some more and replace the rockwool in the loft with the same.
Ray

cuneus

5,963 posts

243 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
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mk1fan said:
cuneus said:
I asked about 120mm boards.

How does wool work in a loft ?
I know. I just happened to buy a sheet of 100mm at the w/e so knew the price.

Wool works in the loft because the plasterboard / lathe and plaster is a closed surface. Unlike floorboards that have gaps between them [that open and close].

If you were to lay wool over just lathes then it wouldn't work as well.


Edited by mk1fan on Thursday 3rd November 19:07
Can you blow through 170mm of wool ?

smn159

Original Poster:

12,704 posts

218 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
ssray said:
We have a 1930`s house on a hill with a void underneath of between 8-14ft, I filled the space underneath the floor in between the joists with expanded foam/urethane/celotex type board that I got for £2 per 10x4ft sheet from a recycling place near me.
I made sure all the air bricks were clear of any blockages etc which should allow enough flow to stop any rot.
It was well worth doing and i`m going to get some more and replace the rockwool in the loft with the same.
Ray
What thickness of boards did you go for?

mk1fan

10,523 posts

226 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
cuneus said:
Can you blow through 170mm of wool ?
Me personally, no. But then again I can't blow soot out of a chimney. Something a gentle breeze can do with ease. I have felt air coming though thick wool insulation. It's permiability is one reason why US codes require internal and external vapour barriers.

At the end of the day if the OP were going to be sheeting over the floor and then laying a laminate or parquet or tiles then using wool would be fine (assuming there was sufficient joist depth) as the warm side is closed off by the sheeting. But their not doing that. They are fitting old floor boards for the period look. These are going to shrink and move making loads of gaps.

So, in this case, using insulation boards is the better and more efficient option.


Edited by mk1fan on Thursday 3rd November 19:51

russ_a

4,585 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
Some pics..

russ_a

4,585 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
...




cuneus

5,963 posts

243 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
Me personally, no. But then again I can't blow soot out of a chimney. Something a gentle breeze can do with ease.
Exhale ~ 15 mph
Gentle breeze = 11.5 mph max

and how would that happen in the underfloor space ?

jules_s

4,291 posts

234 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
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Rigid boards all day long, although I would imagine 120mm is a pretty large over kill lol

As above, sealing the joints is a must...presuming the floor void is properly ventilated, you don't want that cold air wafting in.

Netting and wool isn't the best solution for this IME

russ_a

4,585 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
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Two reasons I used wool and netting, ventalation and cost.

jules_s

4,291 posts

234 months

Thursday 3rd November 2011
quotequote all
russ_a said:
Two reasons I used wool and netting, ventalation and cost.
And by your own admission it hasn't worked....

ssray

1,102 posts

226 months

Friday 4th November 2011
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smn159 said:
What thickness of boards did you go for?
100mm finishing off the job next week, because i cant get board in between the hot water pipes and the floor so i will be using space blanket on those bits and expanding foam on the end bits-only on brick and not covering up the wooden joists with it.
Ray

mk1fan

10,523 posts

226 months

Friday 4th November 2011
quotequote all
cuneus said:
Exhale ~ 15 mph
Gentle breeze = 11.5 mph max

and how would that happen in the underfloor space ?
Really? How would a breeze enter an externally ventilated floor void?

We'll have to agree to disagree. As I've previously said using 'wool' insulation to insulate a floor is workable in the right circumstances. The OPs, imho, are not the right circumstances.

russ_a,

I refer to the last sentence in my first post on this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That is arwful and ill thought out work you've photographed there.

Edited by mk1fan on Friday 4th November 13:22

dirty boy

14,703 posts

210 months

Friday 4th November 2011
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
I refer to the last sentence in my first post on this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Agree with you on that one.

ill thought out.

Some DIYers though, do take on/seek advice from those who do know better.

mk1fan

10,523 posts

226 months

Friday 4th November 2011
quotequote all
I'd like to point out that I'm not being nasty. Clearly, there was some effort (and considerable inconvenience) put in that hasn't born the expected fruit.

russ_a

4,585 posts

212 months

Friday 4th November 2011
quotequote all
Yeap, I wished I hadn't had done it but it has stopped the breeze blowing through the carpet!

Lots of threads on DiyNot.com recommending netting and wool over boards due to ventalation.

Read a few posts where peoples joists had rotted in the roof space and floor. A couple of people using boards had commented that when they spill a drink on the floor it just sits on the boards and doesn't evaporate.

As we are fitting a solid wood floor glued to the floor, was told wool and netting was best. Though my builder refused to do it!

You live and learn smile



Edited by russ_a on Friday 4th November 22:11

hairyben

8,516 posts

184 months

Saturday 5th November 2011
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Re: the ventilation issue, I used flat 4x2 duct & elbows to maintain airflow from below the insulation to every airbrick

hyphen

26,262 posts

91 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
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hairyben said:
Have just done the same- 6" of celotex, 3" in the joist as I needed the top inch for UFH pipes and 3" again below. 4" would be more than ample I'd have thought, and fit in the joist nicely.

Look online for C&H insulation, v keen prices
Thread resurrection! as have a question for you smile

Im guessing your existing joists are like mine (4x2). How did you support the additional 3" below the joists?

And did you put a screed on top of the UFH pipes too? if so did you need to strengthen the joists any further for the weight of the screed?

Thanks

Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 15th February 12:44