Our build thread, renovation and extension
Discussion
OK, so I need some help chaps, to sense check my staircase idea.
So my garage has a first floor, primarily just for storage, but it's a decent space. The intention was always to have a "proper" staircase which hinged at the mid point of the first floor and was raised by a hinge from the bottom end.
The problem have however is that I have a floor to ceiling height of 3.348m and a gap in which to raise the staircase of 4.68m. This means that my string can't be any longer than about 4.6m which is giving a staircase which is just too steep, at around 50 degrees, with 15 steps at 245mm each at that kind of angle I am getting significant overlap on each step meaning only about 150mm of it is usable, which doesn't work with my big feet.
So I need to use a longer string, around 5.4m which is the maximum length of my wood and get it to retract into a space which is smaller than this.
So my idea is to pivot the top of the stairs on two 70mm box section uprights which are already in place to support the roof, with something like a couple of length of 40mm tube, these would then slot into a set of ~1m long grooves which are cut into the string of the stairs, reinforced with steel plate on either side.
As the hoist (or pair of hoists) begin to lift the stairs, they are pulling at an angle and will pull the stairs up and back at the same time, as in the diagram below. I would probably need some sort of roller bearing so that the pivot point can freely move along the length of the string.
Does that look achievable or can anyone come up with a more elegant solution? The stairs will be quite weighty, with the hand rails I suspect they will be around 250kg so it needs to be a solid bit of engineering to do this.
So my garage has a first floor, primarily just for storage, but it's a decent space. The intention was always to have a "proper" staircase which hinged at the mid point of the first floor and was raised by a hinge from the bottom end.
The problem have however is that I have a floor to ceiling height of 3.348m and a gap in which to raise the staircase of 4.68m. This means that my string can't be any longer than about 4.6m which is giving a staircase which is just too steep, at around 50 degrees, with 15 steps at 245mm each at that kind of angle I am getting significant overlap on each step meaning only about 150mm of it is usable, which doesn't work with my big feet.
So I need to use a longer string, around 5.4m which is the maximum length of my wood and get it to retract into a space which is smaller than this.
So my idea is to pivot the top of the stairs on two 70mm box section uprights which are already in place to support the roof, with something like a couple of length of 40mm tube, these would then slot into a set of ~1m long grooves which are cut into the string of the stairs, reinforced with steel plate on either side.
As the hoist (or pair of hoists) begin to lift the stairs, they are pulling at an angle and will pull the stairs up and back at the same time, as in the diagram below. I would probably need some sort of roller bearing so that the pivot point can freely move along the length of the string.
Does that look achievable or can anyone come up with a more elegant solution? The stairs will be quite weighty, with the hand rails I suspect they will be around 250kg so it needs to be a solid bit of engineering to do this.
Muncher said:
minivanman said:
Probably a bit late now, but couldn't you fit a dog leg staircase in a corner?
I don't really want one of those, I prefer a straight run for taking long and or heavy things up. I want to keep space at the far end of the garage for a workbench and tools.Do it as originally planned but with another hinge for the last c. 1m (5.4m -4.68m)that hangs down from the ceiling when the stair is retracted into the void. The bottom will need casters or something to allow it to unfold. Also means you can do it with shorter lengths of wood.
Edited by gmasterfunk on Tuesday 27th December 18:33
gmasterfunk said:
Do it as originally planned but with another hinge for the last c. 1m (5.4m -4.68m)that hangs down from the ceiling when the stair is retracted into the void. The bottom will need casters or something to allow it to unfold. Also means you can do it with shorter lengths of wood.
I don't really want to have anything like that hanging down if possible, ideally I want it to sit flush with the ceiling and be largely invisible.Edited by gmasterfunk on Tuesday 27th December 18:33
The thought did cross my mind but firstly that would look a bit messy, secondly there will be a fixed hand rail and unless this started at about 1.5m up the stairs this would hit the ceiling first and thirdly the stairs will only stop moving when the stop button is hit, I'm concerned that if it is moving up against a fixed object and for whatever reason the hoist does not stop it's going to do all sorts of damage. The way I was proposing there is a lot more margin for error.
EddyP said:
Yeah I like that one but the ceiling in there is quite low so it's relatively light relying on gas struts, my stairs are going to be considerably heavier so I don't fancy that.
I'm now looking to get the position of the first fix electrics sorted and I have the following listed:
Upstairs
Double socket at either end
Power for compressor upstairs (6mm feed)
Power for twin hoists for stair lift
Downstairs
Light switch by main door (4 switches)
Light switch by side door (4 switches)
Power overhead for garage door
Power overhead for lift (6mm feed)
Power for water heater next to sink
4 double sockets either side of garage (two of which to be 6mm feeds)
4 double sockets on end wall above workbench
Heaters (convection or IR?) x 4 along garage walls
Outside
Light over garage door
Internal Lighting
18x 600x600 48W panels
8x 1200x300 LED panels on walls
Am I missing anything? The only thing I am unsure about is what kind of provision for heaters, at floor level for storage heaters or up high for IR heaters?
Upstairs
Double socket at either end
Power for compressor upstairs (6mm feed)
Power for twin hoists for stair lift
Downstairs
Light switch by main door (4 switches)
Light switch by side door (4 switches)
Power overhead for garage door
Power overhead for lift (6mm feed)
Power for water heater next to sink
4 double sockets either side of garage (two of which to be 6mm feeds)
4 double sockets on end wall above workbench
Heaters (convection or IR?) x 4 along garage walls
Outside
Light over garage door
Internal Lighting
18x 600x600 48W panels
8x 1200x300 LED panels on walls
Am I missing anything? The only thing I am unsure about is what kind of provision for heaters, at floor level for storage heaters or up high for IR heaters?
That's a lot of effort for your storage! It's too late now, but did you consider using an external staircase to a dormer entrance in the roof? It would have made a nice feature on the side and saved you all this trouble. Also, a big top-hinge velux so you can sit up there and watch the bowls?
What about sockets outside for pressure washer etc? Also security lighting / cctv etc.
I'd try and think about what work you'd possibly do in there and future proof yourself - maybe sockets for a lift if you might fit one and maybe some spare ceiling ones for trailing lights, trickle chargers etc.
The other thing i'd think about if having an isolator switch (or the fusebox) near to the front or side door just so you can switch off everything as you leave and not worry about things left on - then maybe another circuit for things that need to be on all the time.
I'd try and think about what work you'd possibly do in there and future proof yourself - maybe sockets for a lift if you might fit one and maybe some spare ceiling ones for trailing lights, trickle chargers etc.
The other thing i'd think about if having an isolator switch (or the fusebox) near to the front or side door just so you can switch off everything as you leave and not worry about things left on - then maybe another circuit for things that need to be on all the time.
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