ABS Locks - Avocet - worth it?

[chichee]

Mattt said:

Potential silly question but have you tried from both directions?

If I am being honest, I haven't. However, I don't think that the 'lumps' will go through the cyclinder hole from the inside either.

Fastpedeller said:

I've just fitted mine..... Undo handle screws and remove both handles, undo screw on side of door, turn key a little and remove old cylinder (guess you've got that far). Insert new cylinder from outside (part with "lumps" is to outside of door). Unless the hole in the UPVC is exactly the size of cylinder (unlikely) it'll go in easily. Turning key a little get cylinder in position (basically same as removal of old) Put screw in from side, check operation and tighten side screw, replace handles, job done. A little more tricky if you have a french door like mine, so to get the other cylinder in place you have to remove glass to get to lock fixing screw (or as I did) remove lock plate and drill side of mullion to get to screw. Don't do as i did and drill the hole 5mm out of line, it's a PITA to get the hole aligned again

Hmmmm....it seems that the cylinder hole is the exact size of the lock cylinder.

[Fastpedeller]

chichee said:

Mattt said:

Potential silly question but have you tried from both directions?

If I am being honest, I haven't. However, I don't think that the 'lumps' will go through the cyclinder hole from the inside either.

Fastpedeller said:

I've just fitted mine..... Undo handle screws and remove both handles, undo screw on side of door, turn key a little and remove old cylinder (guess you've got that far). Insert new cylinder from outside (part with "lumps" is to outside of door). Unless the hole in the UPVC is exactly the size of cylinder (unlikely) it'll go in easily. Turning key a little get cylinder in position (basically same as removal of old) Put screw in from side, check operation and tighten side screw, replace handles, job done. A little more tricky if you have a french door like mine, so to get the other cylinder in place you have to remove glass to get to lock fixing screw (or as I did) remove lock plate and drill side of mullion to get to screw. Don't do as i did and drill the hole 5mm out of line, it's a PITA to get the hole aligned again

Hmmmm....it seems that the cylinder hole is the exact size of the lock cylinder.

Ok - with handles removed, just use a round file to remove the necessary UPVC to allow room for the 'lumps', there won't be any evidence of this once the handles are subsequently replaced.

[Carlton Banks]

Accelebrate said:

You could try some of these...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extractor-Stripped-Hardne...

I bought a 'speedout' kit and it was brilliant.



Very clever method of removing a mashed screw head !

[Fastpedeller]

Carlton Banks said:

Accelebrate said:

You could try some of these...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extractor-Stripped-Hardne...

I bought a 'speedout' kit and it was brilliant.



Very clever method of removing a mashed screw head !

Excellent.... well worth £7 if it does the job (which, judging by your experience, it did!)

[wilwak]

Fastpedeller said:

Ok - with handles removed, just use a round file to remove the necessary UPVC to allow room for the 'lumps', there won't be any evidence of this once the handles are subsequently replaced.

I've just installed some 3 star Mul T Locks throughout our home.

They too have some blips on the barrel.

A circular file on the door lock opening just allows it to be widened enough in the right place. Either in the up case or metal.

Quite easy....

[Crafty_]

Weird question, can you get a normal looking key for the Avocets ? By normal I mean without that big lump of plastic on it.. I'd much prefer a regular metal "head", the plastic bit appears to be rather large.

Also is there a good listing of PAS24 handles so I can see if I can find one to fit my door?

[Craikeybaby]

They are under £4 on eBay, so I've ordered some too.

[chichee]

wilwak said:

Fastpedeller said:

Ok - with handles removed, just use a round file to remove the necessary UPVC to allow room for the 'lumps', there won't be any evidence of this once the handles are subsequently replaced.

I've just installed some 3 star Mul T Locks throughout our home.

They too have some blips on the barrel.

A circular file on the door lock opening just allows it to be widened enough in the right place. Either in the up case or metal.

Quite easy....

Will give this a bash! Thanks! 😀

[SVS]

Crafty_ said:

Weird question, can you get a normal looking key for the Avocets ? By normal I mean without that big lump of plastic on it.. I'd much prefer a regular metal "head", the plastic bit appears to be rather large.

Also is there a good listing of PAS24 handles so I can see if I can find one to fit my door?

Crafty, I believe Avocet ABS keys are only available with the large plastic "bow". However, several other 3-star cylinders come with regular key bows (e.g. Yale AS Platinum, Kaba pExtra Guard and Evva's anti-snap range).

Most (all?) of the PAS24 handles are only made to standard PZ sizes. You can measure the PZ of your existing handles and then look for 2-star handles with the same PZ.

[Crafty_]

Thanks SVS, I had just started looking at Kaba locks. sShame no-one can make the avocet keys without the big plastic bit.

The handle I want to replace is a 92PZ, but its an unusual size, 240mm screw to screw. Its listed here as D39 http://www.handlestore.com/blog/how-to-measure-upv...

Seems most of the PAS24 handles have a smaller screw to screw measurement.

[rfsteel]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've taken one off, and the key blade extends into the plastic with a T piece at the end IIRC.

Which unfortunately is no wider that the blade itself, though possibly drillable with the right tools.

[Fastpedeller]

Here's a question..... I'm expecting a variety of answers
I'm fitting a new pedestrian door to the garage/workshop and it has a euro cylinder. As I don't want to spend any more cash, my idea of increasing security is to extract the cylinder and put some strategic cuts in it with the hacksaw so that if someone tries breaking it they'll just get the end of it with a sacrificial break! What do you guys think of my DIY 'improvement'?

[dazwalsh]

Fastpedeller said:

Here's a question..... I'm expecting a variety of answers
I'm fitting a new pedestrian door to the garage/workshop and it has a euro cylinder. As I don't want to spend any more cash, my idea of increasing security is to extract the cylinder and put some strategic cuts in it with the hacksaw so that if someone tries breaking it they'll just get the end of it with a sacrificial break! What do you guys think of my DIY 'improvement'?

My answer would be to just invest a tenna in a Yale superior rather than tryinf to butcher a standard cylinder, your new weak points still might not be as weak as the central part surrounding the screw, not worrh the risk to be honest, especially if your going to storw tools in there.

[Fastpedeller]

dazwalsh said:

Fastpedeller said:

Here's a question..... I'm expecting a variety of answers
I'm fitting a new pedestrian door to the garage/workshop and it has a euro cylinder. As I don't want to spend any more cash, my idea of increasing security is to extract the cylinder and put some strategic cuts in it with the hacksaw so that if someone tries breaking it they'll just get the end of it with a sacrificial break! What do you guys think of my DIY 'improvement'?

My answer would be to just invest a tenna in a Yale superior rather than tryinf to butcher a standard cylinder, your new weak points still might not be as weak as the central part surrounding the screw, not worrh the risk to be honest, especially if your going to storw tools in there.

Where can I get one for a tenner?

[dazwalsh]

EBay. It will likely be a 40-50 measurement.

[chichee]

I gave it another attempt before putting the file into use, and fortunately I have been able to install it! 😎

Thank you to everyone for your helps and suggestions!

[skahigh]

Guys, what is the consensus opinion on thumb vs key turn for the interior of a main door lock?

I've always assumed that thumb turn is quite unsafe as it would be easy to reach through a letterbox or something and open the door but then, we do leave a key in the front door at night anyway for safety in the event of a fire or something.

[dogbucket]

skahigh said:

Guys, what is the consensus opinion on thumb vs key turn for the interior of a main door lock?

I've always assumed that thumb turn is quite unsafe as it would be easy to reach through a letterbox or something and open the door but then, we do leave a key in the front door at night anyway for safety in the event of a fire or something.

The thumbturn on an Avocet has to be pushed in and then turned, it then pops out when it reaches the opposite end position (locked or unlocked). Security wise it would be difficult to hook and turn it through the letterbox due to this, but if it is left half turned the key will not work from the otherside so you can get locked out if you have a pad style outer handle and the door shuts behind you.

We had the rear french doors keyed alike so there was a way in if this happens (twice so far..)

[Craikeybaby]

I've only got one on the patio doors, as the front door has a letter box, and the back door and opening window next to it, so didn't want a thumb turn (nor would I want to leave a key in the lock). With the ABS Avocet you need to be careful about leaving keys in the lock, as with a key in the lock, you cannot use a key from the other side of the door. We tend to have our spare keys hidden out of sight, but near the doors, should we need them in an emergency.

[skahigh]

We moved into our house 18 months ago and have had cylinders in the front and back doors that my dad had spare, they protrude miles on the interior and exterior.

I felt we lived in a fairly safe area so wasn't too worried about this (although I always planned on replacing them) however, recently my wife's car was rifled through while it was sat on our drive so sorting out the house security has shot up my to-do list.

I have ordered the Mila ProSecure handles for the front and back doors but am having some trouble getting the sizing right for the euro cylinders, somehow I've measured, checked and rechecked and still managed to order the wrong size twice!!!!

I think the correct exterior length for the existing handles is 30mm however, I think with the Mila handles it might be a better fit at 35mm, I'm waiting for them to arrive to see how they fit with the existing lock protrusion.

I'm then weighing up whether to go for the ABS or whether something like the 1 star Yale cylinders will suffice with the Mila handles, there's quite a price difference, the Yales are half the price!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Superior-Cylinder-Securit...

I've then got loads of other questions...

- Thumb turn or key for the main and back doors?
- Keyed alike? I'd like this but, seems hard to get hold of in 30mm exterior length

4 glass french doors to secure:

- Blind euro cylinder on the external face? I will never want to unlock them from the outside
- Half cylinder with a blank handle? I'm having trouble finding a supplier for these type of handles
- Thumb turn or key? If someone broke the glass to turn a thumb turn they could walk through anyway?

Arrrgghhh!