ABS Locks - Avocet - worth it?

[kickfor20minutes]

I wouldn't use the Abus, it was discovered that there is an easy bypass to unlock these without the key.
They were dropped from all good suppliers with any decent knowledge.
The Kaba Pextra Guard is one the best, Ultion has a good reputation at the moment also.
www.securitylocksand handles.co.uk have both on offer.

[eatontrifles]

SkinnyPete said:

I would like to think so but at the same time I've never really seen how difficult it is to smash laminated glass sufficient enough for you to gain access, then I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CiLZY-HGw

Doesn't inspire too much confidence but it may be enough to deter smash and grabs, I hope so anyway because all my downstairs windows and doors are laminated.

We have rear patio double doors with half barrels (so no external key) fitted with laminated glass as well as a patlock and had a break in a couple of months ago. They didn't get in through the patio doors, but they did try (got it on CCTV) and the blank external handles & no lock meant that they didn't touch the handles, but they did try to pop the glass which just cracked and they instantly gave up. Unfortunately our wooden front door was an old single glazed glass panel so they put that through instead and climbed in, not without trying to jemmy the door open first but failing.

[Dboot]

I’m using police recommended handles and abs advocate locks. Only problem is someone could pop window and unscrew handles from inside. Does anyone know if I could get some ball bearings to put inside the interior screw so they can’t be taken off from the outside.

Edited by Dboot on Wednesday 7th February 09:57

Edited by Dboot on Wednesday 7th February 09:58

[Rosscow]

They just wouldn't bother, would they?

If they pop the glass out, they'll just climb through!!

[Dboot]

Yup your right. Thanks

[TheAngryDog]

SkinnyPete said:

thebraketester said:

Laminated glass would solve that I imagine

I would like to think so but at the same time I've never really seen how difficult it is to smash laminated glass sufficient enough for you to gain access, then I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CiLZY-HGw

Doesn't inspire too much confidence but it may be enough to deter smash and grabs, I hope so anyway because all my downstairs windows and doors are laminated.

If someone is having to take a sledge hammer to your window to get in, 30 seconds to me seems pretty strong?

[andy43]

Rosscow said:

They just wouldn't bother, would they?

If they pop the glass out, they'll just climb through!!

[TheAngryDog]

The French doors on my house have 1 handle with no outside barrel on one door and 1 with on the other. I assume then that this is a half barrel lock, and I could just buy a normal half barrel lock and new handle for the other door? I would then only be able to unlock from the inside, which isn't an issue. Would normal locks, rather than 3 star locks suffice for this? Would normal blank handles be OK or would I be best getting 2 star ones?

[Toltec]

TheAngryDog said:

The French doors on my house have 1 handle with no outside barrel on one door and 1 with on the other. I assume then that this is a half barrel lock, and I could just buy a normal half barrel lock and new handle for the other door? I would then only be able to unlock from the inside, which isn't an issue. Would normal locks, rather than 3 star locks suffice for this? Would normal blank handles be OK or would I be best getting 2 star ones?

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

The high security handle may help and if you can blank the lock opening with some steel maybe?

I went through the same thought process and just ended up getting the Ultion cylinders. My door leaf was too thin to allow me to get the external length low enough to fit behind a blank handle plate, but that could be an option.

[eatontrifles]

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

[Toltec]

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

I know, but how hard is it to get through the back of a single cylinder to do that? I've seen drills go through the front of cheaper locks in seconds.

[eatontrifles]

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

I know, but how hard is it to get through the back of a single cylinder to do that? I've seen drills go through the front of cheaper locks in seconds.

Once the barrel is punched or drilled out, how are you expecting the locking mechanism to be activated?

[Toltec]

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

I know, but how hard is it to get through the back of a single cylinder to do that? I've seen drills go through the front of cheaper locks in seconds.

Once the barrel is punched or drilled out, how are you expecting the locking mechanism to be activated?

The way I saw it done by a locksmith was with a screwdriver, that was from the front though. From the back I'd guess you would drill straight through to destroy the barrel then use a slightly larger bit to expose the cam so you can wedge something into the first smaller hole in the cam. You might do it the other way around of course if the smaller bit needs to be off centre.

[eatontrifles]

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

I know, but how hard is it to get through the back of a single cylinder to do that? I've seen drills go through the front of cheaper locks in seconds.

Once the barrel is punched or drilled out, how are you expecting the locking mechanism to be activated?

The way I saw it done by a locksmith was with a screwdriver, that was from the front though. From the back I'd guess you would drill straight through to destroy the barrel then use a slightly larger bit to expose the cam so you can wedge something into the first smaller hole in the cam. You might do it the other way around of course if the smaller bit needs to be off centre.

I think you're misunderstanding how these locks function. Watch this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5pA_8Ut_J4

[Toltec]

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

eatontrifles said:

Toltec said:

The first thing that occurs to me is that if they can pull the handle plate aside and there is already a lock hole in the door frame they could just punch/drill the barrel out and open the door anyway.

That's not how lock snapping of euro cylinders is done, it requires access to the cam. http://www.upgrademylock.com/home-security/threats...

I know, but how hard is it to get through the back of a single cylinder to do that? I've seen drills go through the front of cheaper locks in seconds.

Once the barrel is punched or drilled out, how are you expecting the locking mechanism to be activated?

The way I saw it done by a locksmith was with a screwdriver, that was from the front though. From the back I'd guess you would drill straight through to destroy the barrel then use a slightly larger bit to expose the cam so you can wedge something into the first smaller hole in the cam. You might do it the other way around of course if the smaller bit needs to be off centre.

I think you're misunderstanding how these locks function. Watch this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5pA_8Ut_J4

Yes, of course, no need to destroy the barrel from the back, you just need to get at the cam.

[eatontrifles]

Toltec said:

Yes, of course, no need to destroy the barrel from the back, you just need to get at the cam.

From experience, as soon as a thief sees that there is no way to snap the cylinder because there is nothing to grab hold of then they change their tack or just move onto somewhere easier, which could be another door/window on the same property or it might be another target altogether. I'm not saying 100% that it isn't going to happen, but they're not going to attempt drill a lock as you have described.

[Toltec]

eatontrifles said:

rom experience, as soon as a thief sees that there is no way to snap the cylinder because there is nothing to grab hold of then they change their tack or just move onto somewhere easier, which could be another door/window on the same property or it might be another target altogether. I'm not saying 100% that it isn't going to happen, but they're not going to attempt drill a lock as you have described.

I suppose it is always an arms race, I was thinking more about a targeted invasion than casual attempt, though I guess if they want in they will finsd a way in that case.

[dazwalsh]

SVS said:

Lock snapping isn’t the only way in. It’s just the best known (perhaps because of Avocet’s marketing). Drilling the lock’s a possibility too.

Its the most common, purely for speed and lack of noise, taking a drill to the locks is going to take time and make a racket.

[eatontrifles]

Toltec said:

I suppose it is always an arms race, I was thinking more about a targeted invasion than casual attempt, though I guess if they want in they will finsd a way in that case.

I was targeted. They saw my half cylinder (and patlocks) and didn't even touch the handles instead going straight for the glass, which is laminated so they moved on to another door.

[Harry Flashman]

We've just fitted the ABS 3 star cylinders. If someone is going to come into our house, they will likely do so through one of the large, double glazed sash windows (that thanks to heritage glass, don't look double glazed). Which is why we have shock sensors on burglar alarm, and every ground floor room has a locked door on it, making it hard to get further into the house.

I pretty much accept (London) that we will be burgled at some point, so try to keep anything valuable off-premises or locked up in the gun cabinet. And I buy proper insurance with a proper insurance company.