ABS Locks - Avocet - worth it?
Discussion
SkinnyPete said:
My Rockdoors come with cylinder guards. Is there any issue leaving these fitted with the anti-snap Ultion locks? I know the Ultion is designed to snap, but it feels a lot less secure when it's not in the cylinder guard.
There are two ways to prevent entry by lock snapping:- Help the cylinder snap in the right place, combined with a locking cam. Various cylinders use this approach, e.g. Ultion, Avocet ABS, Kaba pExtra Guard. Avocet and Ultion are OK and well-marketed, but the 3-star options from Evva, Kaba and Mul-T-Lock are significantly better, IMO.
- Make the cylinder unsnappable (e.g. a cylinder guard). If you want belt-and-braces, some cylinders reinforce this defence, e.g. the Cisa Astral S. While the Astal S alone isn't snap-proof, it has a hardened bar to support what the guard is designed to do. It also has good resistance against drilling. If you want OTT security: Abloy's Protec2 cylinder is available in a hardened steel version.
Evanivitch said:
Are you confusing Avocet branded ABS cylinders with some random ABS brand?
edkemper is correct. Avocet, Ultion and Brisant outsource their manufacturing to a third party in Taiwan; I've heard of occasional reliability issues. In contrast, Evva (Austrian-manufactured in-house), Kaba (Swiss-engineered) and Mul-T-Lock (made mainly in Israel) are of higher quality.Thought I’d resurrect this thread rather than a new one….
We had a break in attempt the other night, presumably for the car keys. The Avocet ABS did the job but I know it was never technically fitted correctly as the door is too thin.
Basically the French doors originally came with a 25/35 cylinder lock but it seems none of the 3 star anti snap locks are available in that size. I was in a rush to get the lock changed after the break in so now have a 35/35 Avocet lock fitted and it’s a bit sticky-outy!
What are my options here? I need a 25/35 but can’t find one; can I fix some kind of steel plate to the outside of the door to ‘increase’ the thickness and then mount the handle on that?
I’d say that cost isn’t a factor, but then that would imply I’m happy to replace the doors, which I’m not! So new handles and lock are the goal with no max budget. Picture so it’s clear what I mean….
We had a break in attempt the other night, presumably for the car keys. The Avocet ABS did the job but I know it was never technically fitted correctly as the door is too thin.
Basically the French doors originally came with a 25/35 cylinder lock but it seems none of the 3 star anti snap locks are available in that size. I was in a rush to get the lock changed after the break in so now have a 35/35 Avocet lock fitted and it’s a bit sticky-outy!
What are my options here? I need a 25/35 but can’t find one; can I fix some kind of steel plate to the outside of the door to ‘increase’ the thickness and then mount the handle on that?
I’d say that cost isn’t a factor, but then that would imply I’m happy to replace the doors, which I’m not! So new handles and lock are the goal with no max budget. Picture so it’s clear what I mean….
Do you need a lock on the outside? Half euro & blanking?
https://smart-home-group.co.uk/products/abs-britis...
https://smart-home-group.co.uk/products/abs-britis...
Well no, we don’t actually. That’s actually what the crime scene bloke suggested but then the lock shop specialist laughed and said that would be stupid as they could just knock the lock through from the outside.
I’m happy to lose the lock on the outside if I knew how to do it properly!
I’m happy to lose the lock on the outside if I knew how to do it properly!
mrmistoffelees said:
The guy at the lock shop is talking s
t. The cylinder is held in by a screw coming in from the side, so you can't knock it through. The cam is mounted against the cylinder so you can't do it that way. Get a pair of handles, one blanked, one with a standard Euro opening. That's it.
Well that’s kind of what I thought. If you can knock half a lock through you can knock a whole lock through!t. The cylinder is held in by a screw coming in from the side, so you can't knock it through. The cam is mounted against the cylinder so you can't do it that way. Get a pair of handles, one blanked, one with a standard Euro opening. That's it.My plan was to actually fill the hole in the wood on the external side anyway so that if they did remove the handle and backplate it would hopefully just look like solid wood with no access to the lock.
When I fitted security handles along with security locks, they were quite a bit thicker if I recall correctly. The lock is protected from sticking out for them to attack with pliers. It sits within the handle area. See pic new lock and handle on the left, old on the right. You can see how the lock is shielded.
But I can’t remember the dimensions now as obviously the lock and handle have to be able to work together
But I can’t remember the dimensions now as obviously the lock and handle have to be able to work together
CoolHands said:
When I fitted security handles along with security locks, they were quite a bit thicker if I recall correctly. The lock is protected from sticking out for them to attack with pliers. It sits within the handle area. See pic new lock and handle on the left, old on the right. You can see how the lock is shielded.
But I can’t remember the dimensions now as obviously the lock and handle have to be able to work together
From what I’ve read it’s about 12mm max projection. Even with a 30/35 I’ve got more than that so the Secure by design handles won’t work as they can’t accommodate the protrusion. I think I’m going to go down the route of losing the external lock as we don’t need it. But I can’t remember the dimensions now as obviously the lock and handle have to be able to work together
SlimJim16v said:
These are perfect! That’s what I need! If only the website actually allowed you to buy the things they advertise…..
Any recommendations for a half lock? I guess it’s not as critical as it’s not accessible to the scumbags.
The Hoppe PAS24 handles (as pictured a few posts above) have a sliding cover over the external lock but details of the range of projection is hard to come by & the Hoppe website is rubbish. it comes with hardened bolts so teh door needs to be the right thickness as well.
https://www.carlfgroupco.co.uk/door-hardware/door-...
https://www.carlfgroupco.co.uk/door-hardware/door-...
Crumpet said:
SlimJim16v said:
These are perfect! That’s what I need! If only the website actually allowed you to buy the things they advertise…..Any recommendations for a half lock? I guess it’s not as critical as it’s not accessible to the scumbags.
Mr Pointy said:
It's a bit suspicious that there are no Google hits for "euro secure lock-lock" other than that one website. Vapourware?
It’s pretty rubbish, isn’t it. I actually went to the local lock shop who stock Ultion. It’s an ‘Ultion Lock-Lock’ handle and having spoken with them it’s 2 star rated and looks just what I’m after. So I’ve ordered the Lock Lock handle and a single cylinder Ultion 3 star plus lock to fit on the inside. We don’t need the lock outside so this should do the job - I hope!
Crumpet said:
Mr Pointy said:
It's a bit suspicious that there are no Google hits for "euro secure lock-lock" other than that one website. Vapourware?
It’s pretty rubbish, isn’t it. I actually went to the local lock shop who stock Ultion. It’s an ‘Ultion Lock-Lock’ handle and having spoken with them it’s 2 star rated and looks just what I’m after. So I’ve ordered the Lock Lock handle and a single cylinder Ultion 3 star plus lock to fit on the inside. We don’t need the lock outside so this should do the job - I hope!
Mr Pointy said:
That's interesting as I like the idea of the slide down latch for the inside of my front door rather that a potentially weak thumbturn: I'll look at the Ultion site for the handle. I'm in two minds about removing the outside lock on the back door as it's always a backup way of getting into the house, although I've never yet actually had to unlock it from the outside.
I think it’s best to have a back-up door to go in / out via. The bds went next door after ours and managed to gain entry and take their car. But they rendered the front door unopenable from inside; they were only able to get out of the house because the back door was wide open with the lock completely removed. They had standard euro locks that weren’t upgraded. Pretty scary having four men in balaclavas around your house, though. The CCTV is chilling and without it I’d probably never have known that someone attempted to break in. I remember it was reading this thread a few years ago that made me change my locks - it’s saved my car and a load of stress this time!
Mr Pointy said:
Crumpet said:
SlimJim16v said:
These are perfect! That’s what I need! If only the website actually allowed you to buy the things they advertise…..Any recommendations for a half lock? I guess it’s not as critical as it’s not accessible to the scumbags.
Nope it's ultion
https://www.ultion-lock.co.uk/security-handle/
Edited by Trustmeimadoctor on Monday 12th June 12:53
Mr Pointy said:
It's a bit suspicious that there are no Google hits for "euro secure lock-lock" other than that one website. Vapourware?
I fitted them to mine and my parents back doors. Very solid feel and being rounded makes it very difficult to get mole grips on.The place I got them from doesn't appear to have them anymore though.
CoolHands said:
bds. Have you got a particularly desirable car?
Sadly, yes. A commonly stolen variety. ds. Have you got a particularly desirable car?
From the CCTV they didn’t come for mine, they came for next door’s 2016 diesel Audi but happened to notice mine through a gap in the hedge as they walked past.
Our security was already decent but I’ve stepped it up another notch. The police said they’re unlikely to return but I don’t believe them for a moment; it felt like they were trying to put us at ease. And, to be fair to the police, they were very good and there within five minutes of me calling!
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