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5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
My OH has been quoted £12000 + VAT to make a level subfloor and then cover with Havwoods Ventureplank 959 engineered oak flooring. For about 80sqm in total. At £150/sqm + VAT that seems rather spendy to me. :-o Although it does include the presumably fiddly work of covering a (bog-standard) staircase, too.

So I went looking for engineered oak flooring costs but I can't seen any typical online prices for Havwoods' stuff. Most of the similar types that I can find seem to be around £50/sqm = £4400 for the total area (inc 10% for wastage).

So perhaps Havwoods is super-high-grade and a lot more than £50/sqm? Or is the fitter making a mint on labour (as well as the usual trade mark-up on materials)?

Any ideas?

HowMuchLonger

2,608 posts

63 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
We paid £32 /m2 for Kahrs engineered woord floor (£45/m2 rrp) for 130m2.

Mouldings + underlay etc were of negligable cost.

I am afraid you are paying for labour.

Edited by HowMuchLonger on Friday 9th March 19:00

hondafanatic

2,955 posts

71 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
Oooooo...My neighbour is Mr Havwoods (that's not his real name but you get the point). He's not in right now but I'll ask him when I see him at some point over the weekend.


Slagathore

3,745 posts

62 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
What's the sub floor they are putting in?


5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
Any info from Mr Havwoods would be very useful! smile

Slagathore said:
What's the sub floor they are putting in?
Good question. I forget the details, but it was specced by the fitter and a surveyor (who was there for another reason) concurred with his approach. The main faff-factor is the variety of downstairs surfaces (some old concrete, some new concrete, some existing floor boards, odd thresholds, not very even). Basically imagine a '50s house with conventional plank flooring, but several extensions, and now all being levelled for one continuous run of flooring.

I believe the subfloor involves some thin foam (similar?) going down and then screed, but I wasn't listening to all of the details, I'm afraid.
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Slagathore

3,745 posts

62 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
5705 said:
Good question. I forget the details, but it was specced by the fitter and a surveyor (who was there for another reason) concurred with his approach. The main faff-factor is the variety of downstairs surfaces (some old concrete, some new concrete, some existing floor boards, odd thresholds, not very even). Basically imagine a '50s house with conventional plank flooring, but several extensions, and now all being levelled for one continuous run of flooring.

I believe the subfloor involves some thin foam (similar?) going down and then screed, but I wasn't listening to all of the details, I'm afraid.
Sounds like they're going to insulate with a Celotex/Kingspan type of rigid board insulation then screed and lay the floor on that. Are the existing concrete floors at the same level as the existing wooden floors? if they aren't, they'll probably have to take those concrete floors up then dig down to insulate and then lay the screed on again to to bring it to a level that will meet up with exiting wooden floor levels so they can lay the new stuff level across all of it.

To be honest, the details of the sub floor would really need to be known to explain why the price is so high, as that's a fair old area to be doing.


GingerWizard

4,612 posts

68 months

[news] 
Friday 9th March 2012 quote quote all
Find an independant local timber mill, there are loads of varients of oak flooring, the eastern block countries are excellet at this sort of mass production. I had my ensuite to do and picked up some lovely 3/4" thick double interlocked oak with a water protection and satin finish for about £45 persq meter. Its better then the best stuff they do at B&Q and they wanted 130 per sq/m for the inferior product.

Honestly flooring can be bloody expensive and with a little time you can save a lot of money.

Gwiz

TooLateForAName

2,216 posts

54 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th March 2012 quote quote all
I bought solid oak from British Hardwoods near Skipton - paid around £35/m2

Very nice.

Cogcog

11,218 posts

105 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th March 2012 quote quote all
TooLateForAName said:
I bought solid oak from British Hardwoods near Skipton - paid around £35/m2

Very nice.
I had a floor from BHW in 2007 and it was excellent. Looks as good today as it did the day it went down. Worked out at about £50 a meter as I had it fumed, distressed and prewaxed which was extra. This last time I did price them up but they were at the top end and didn't want to offer any decent discount for 300 sq meters.

In the end I found a local supplier who did me a 33% discount on a 19mm engineered oak floor. I ended up paying an old time joiner £2,700 to (slowly) fit it over 6 weeks, another £300 in edging and £250 in polywax and then I had 300 meters of low tog underlay. All in for 300 meters, £13,500.

5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th March 2012 quote quote all
Thanks all for the input. Not sure the OH is up for going to sawmills/suppliers direct to get competitive wood prices for herself. She'd rather get the fitter to source and be responsible for everything.

More details:

Sub floor is £3400 and involves levelling and raising the floor. Using "2 coats of iko synthaprufe dpm" (for the concreted areas?) and "unibond slurry to the floorboarded area" then a fibre mesh throughout and a fibre screed. Then 20mm ply. The the floor.

Flooring with labour is £10886. The spec was for A-grade 20mm multi-ply, "sound knots with diameter up to 5mm allows, 2 per board")

5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
Very late follow up to say OH is dischuffed.

The original quote was for European oak with a very high spec (colour, knots, filled defects, etc). It wasn't Havwoods (my bad memory) but Hakwood's Prime oak that was specified:
http://www.hakwood.com/productengineered.php?ID=1&...

And it now turns out the chap has installed Chinese oak with a lesser spec (in particular wider colour variation, larger and more knots, and filled defects). He claims that "prime is prime".

This may get ugly... frown

5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Friday 20th July 2012 quote quote all
Another follow-up. The cheeky f****r (by which I mean 'fitter') now has photos of my OH's house in his online gallery! What's interesting is that there he's described it as "Prime Grade AB". WTF! Of course, that's exactly what the original Chinese supplier calls it, although he sells it at $40/m2 and with no detailed quality guarantee/spec.

OH now has to decide whether it's worth taking action - at the very least to recover the £2500 or so difference in material cost.

Any advice?

AFAICS, the fitter:
  • is a sole trader
  • is not VAT-registered (despite this single 2-week job being over £12000, so surely over the annual registration threshold)
  • gives one address in correspondence (in a relatively poor area of Midlands)
  • actually lives in a swankier place a few miles away (thanks to Google)
(And I haven't even started on the woeful quality of the installation yet!)

wormburner

6,426 posts

123 months

[news] 
Friday 20th July 2012 quote quote all
I assume he's been paid in full?

How did you come to discover the different material after paying him but not before?

5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Friday 20th July 2012 quote quote all
Not paid in full, but there's only a few hundred held back for installation-related snagging (creaking in places, etc).

The full extent of the difference in specification was hidden as the flooring was laid and then immediately covered by thick protective paper (to allow other trades to carry on working).

The fitter's final invoice was settled in good faith (balance paid, minus that snagging retention and the £5000 deposit having been paid earlier). The quote/invoice/etc all say "Grade A".

Once the other trades were out and the protection removed, the difference in spec became immediately obvious.

5705

Original Poster:

1,165 posts

22 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
(apologies for making this thread a bit bloggy, but for completeness, here's another update...)

It gets worse... the edges of the flooring boards that are closest to the patio doors have all lifted - by about 30mm!!! It's like a trampoline. frown

It's as if the lower 15mm of ply has expanded more than the 6mm top surface of oak with the recent sun.

wormburner

6,426 posts

123 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
14 day ultimatum to come and replace the whole lot with exactly what you paid for, or then perhaps this?

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

Don't know if the above works for your situation or value of claim, but there might be some useful info on there.
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