knotweed Goddammit!!!!!

[stanwan]

richyb said:

Having read through most of the posts I thought I'd add in my experience. I've dealt with around 5-6 hectares of J.Knotweed in the last two years and use a variety of methods.

My take on it all - As has been mentioned knotweed can be effectively dealt with without professional help. It is very resilient but has the same weaknesses and requirements. First thing to know is it is feature on wildlife and countryside act 1981. You can not plant or intentionally allow knotweed to grow. To fall foul of this you need to maliciously contaminate someone elses property. Additional rules surrounding it relate more to contractors or public bodies for example burning it or transporting it. It is classified as hazardous waste and as such you need special exemptions or permissions to do so. As a home owner you can burn the stems.

In regards managing knotweed the best approach is via herbicide. This can be applied either by spray (folia application) or by injection. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Spraying is quick but you risk killing everything else around the target, you need a dray day (around 6 hours dry weather after application is ideal), you cannot spray near a watercourse or open drain. Several applications may be needed. Injecting is very effective and will kill the plant very quickly, it is weatherproof and there is very limited risk to surrounding plants. The disadvantage is that it requires some specialist tools (although a syringe can be cautiously used). The best time of year to treat knotweed is once it has gone to flower in late summer. The plant will put most of its energy into this process then will try to recoup before going into dormancy. Herbicide will be most effective then. A method I have seen used but would strongly advise against is cutting the plant at the base then pouring herbicide down the hole. This gives you a cut stem to get rid of and it does not provide the best situation for the herbicide. Most herbicides are systematic meaning they are trans-located around the entire plant before poisoning it. If you cut the stem the plant will not be functioning normally and reduce the effectiveness of the herbicide.

In regards to potential damage it can be very destructive but only when it is left to really establish. I treated a 300 metre section of river and found that the top three runs of brickwork from that length has all been loosened by the root growth. I have also seen large sections of tarmac car parks broken up by the root growth. Only once have I seen anything unusual in a residential setting and that was when some stems has started to come up between the floorboards in someones lounge.

In the OPs case that does appear to be an existing problem. You can see the old dead stems at the base which would be a year old at least.

As mentioned you can DIY it but there are reliable people out there who can assist and for larger stands it would be worth considering. Feel free to Pm me if I can assist.

EDIT- Something to know is that Knotweed seeds are not viable and the plant will not grow from them. It is only spread via suckering and by bits of the root system breaking off.

Edited by richyb on Monday 30th April 13:06

Thanks for your words of wisdom richyb. I was planning on building an extension exactly where this small stand of weed is. We've only been here for 2 months, and I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top.

I'm just getting over my anger at being duped - they obviously knew what it was and did their best to conceal it. Now we are the poor suckers that have to deal with it.

My original idea was to buy this "cosmetically" neglected place and turn it into something special for the next decade. My wife is convinced that we will be throwing money at a worthless liability and wants to get rid ASAP....

I was hoping my property honeymoon period would last longer than 8 weeks!!!

Edited by stanwan on Monday 30th April 21:19

[vescaegg]

You have my sympathies OP. we (as a building company) just spent £45k getting rid of this from a 10sq meter patch of land we needed to build on! I'd rather have a leaking nuclear reactor on my land.

[blueg33]

stanwan said:

Thanks for your words of wisdom richyb. I was planning on building an extension exactly where this small stand of weed is. We've only been here for 2 months, and I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top.

I'm just getting over my anger at being duped - they obviously knew what it was and did their best to conceal it. Now we are the poor suckers that have to deal with it.

My original idea was to buy this "cosmetically" neglected place and turn it into something special for the next decade. My wife is convinced that we will be throwing money at a worthless liability and wants to get rid ASAP....

I was hoping my property honeymoon period would last longer than 8 weeks!!!

Edited by stanwan on Monday 30th April 21:19

If what you say about the dumping is true, then you need to look at how the seller answered the questions raised by your solicitor. If you solicitor asked a contamination type question then the sellers may be liable for failing to disclose. (I successfully sued a major developer for failing to disclose knotweed on a site in Sutton Coldfield. They had cut down the knotweed and buried it before we did the site inspection. They were asked whether the site had any environmental contaminants and they answered "not to their knowledge" this was found to be untrue.

[dickymint]

vescaegg said:

You have my sympathies OP. we (as a building company) just spent £45k getting rid of this from a 10sq meter patch of land we needed to build on! I'd rather have a leaking nuclear reactor on my land.

How the hell did it cost £45K? I would have dug that out with a shovel and wheelbarrow for £20K

[dirkgently]

dickymint said:

How the hell did it cost £45K? I would have dug that out with a shovel and wheelbarrow for £20K

By the time you had compleated the courses for wheelbarrow use ,shovel use,Knotweed identification,knotweed eradication, knotweed safe disposal,health and safety, first aid, ect, and then compiled your company policy on best practice,diversity policy, accident book ect, then join the relevant recognised self certification scheme you would be considerably out-of-pocket.

[Lordglenmorangie]

vescaegg said:

You have my sympathies OP. we (as a building company) just spent £45k getting rid of this from a 10sq meter patch of land we needed to build on! I'd rather have a leaking nuclear reactor on my land.

Please let me know if you have any more sites I will be delighted to quote . My son now runs our company as I am retired ( well sort off, you can never retire if you run a 997 Turbo ) we are both Basis registered to sell apply industrial herbicides . We have been dealing with Japanese Knotweed for some twenty five years for railways and utilities and councils.

We would clear a football field of the weed for 45K , and supply all the legal requiments and paper work that would fill your office to the point you couldn't open your door to get in !

We have no experience in Nuclear waste however

[dickymint]

^^^ My offer still stands.............cash mind

[stanwan]

I have come up with a cunning plan. I have access to a non toxic fluorescent dye!!!

I'm going to add this the poison mix and introduce it to the weed.  It should be taken up into the cells and roots. 

The idea is that we can identify rhizomes with a UV lamp when we start digging up.....

[pimpin gimp]

Better yet, get some toxic fluorescent dye, that way it'll kill the bd stuff at the same time as identifying it!

[Chrisgr31]

stanwan said:

I have come up with a cunning plan. I have access to a non toxic fluorescent dye!!!

I'm going to add this the poison mix and introduce it to the weed.  It should be taken up into the cells and roots. 

The idea is that we can identify rhizomes with a UV lamp when we start digging up.....

Digging it up is a remarkably daft idea. Where are you going to put the bits you have dug up? Going to take them to the dump? Oh thats illegal. Then there all the bits that are left in the ground once they have been broken off by tour fork or spade. They will grow worsening the problem.

So best solution is to kill it in situ, then if necessary dig it out once dead.

[stanwan]

Chrisgr31 said:

Digging it up is a remarkably daft idea. Where are you going to put the bits you have dug up? Going to take them to the dump? Oh thats illegal. Then there all the bits that are left in the ground once they have been broken off by tour fork or spade. They will grow worsening the problem.

So best solution is to kill it in situ, then if necessary dig it out once dead.

Erm.... I'm killing in situ with hefty herbicides. When it finally dies, it'll be heavily dyed with fluorescent material - it'll make it easier to see the rhizomes when we dig up the dead plant - I'm not being silly here.

I'll need to bag the dying canes and store them in the garage and dry them out for incineration

[vescaegg]

Lordglenmorangie said:

Please let me know if you have any more sites I will be delighted to quote . My son now runs our company as I am retired ( well sort off, you can never retire if you run a 997 Turbo ) we are both Basis registered to sell apply industrial herbicides . We have been dealing with Japanese Knotweed for some twenty five years for railways and utilities and councils.

We would clear a football field of the weed for 45K , and supply all the legal requiments and paper work that would fill your office to the point you couldn't open your door to get in !

We have no experience in Nuclear waste however

Haha.

My bad it was 10x10m not 10sqm! It was a fairly arduous process IIRC. We had to dig to what looked like the centre of the earth to get below the roots of this stuff then lay what looked like bomb proof sheeting over the top and backfill with imported materials. It had dug itself through walls, concrete slabs and tarmac which all had to be re-instated. My previous description was very ambiguous!

Extremely nasty stuff though.

PM me your details anyway though, we may come up against it again sometime.

[furtive]

There is some useful information on how to deal with it on the environment agency website:

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisur...

Have you also spoken to your solicitor about getting compensation from the sellers as they clearly hid it from you to get the sale

[freecar]

blueg33 said:

stanwan said:

Thanks for your words of wisdom richyb. I was planning on building an extension exactly where this small stand of weed is. We've only been here for 2 months, and I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top.

I'm just getting over my anger at being duped - they obviously knew what it was and did their best to conceal it. Now we are the poor suckers that have to deal with it.

My original idea was to buy this "cosmetically" neglected place and turn it into something special for the next decade. My wife is convinced that we will be throwing money at a worthless liability and wants to get rid ASAP....

I was hoping my property honeymoon period would last longer than 8 weeks!!!

Edited by stanwan on Monday 30th April 21:19

If what you say about the dumping is true, then you need to look at how the seller answered the questions raised by your solicitor. If you solicitor asked a contamination type question then the sellers may be liable for failing to disclose. (I successfully sued a major developer for failing to disclose knotweed on a site in Sutton Coldfield. They had cut down the knotweed and buried it before we did the site inspection. They were asked whether the site had any environmental contaminants and they answered "not to their knowledge" this was found to be untrue.

OP, THIS!

If the previous people lied and covered it up they are still liable and rightly so, they defrauded you by hiding material facts that they knoew would harm the sale.

[Mr GrimNasty]

furtive said:

Have you also spoken to your solicitor about getting compensation from the sellers as they clearly hid it from you to get the sale

Absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. It appears to be a lone plant, quite possible they had no idea what it was at all and just trimmed it as you would any big weed/shrub.

You have to show they had some prior knowledge of the problem to sue.

You'd be better going after your surveyor.

[furtive]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. It appears to be a lone plant, quite possible they had no idea what it was at all and just trimmed it as you would any big weed/shrub.

You have to show they had some prior knowledge of the problem to sue.

You'd be better going after your surveyor.

This doesn't sound like "no proof" to me:

stanwan said:

I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top

[Mr GrimNasty]

furtive said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. It appears to be a lone plant, quite possible they had no idea what it was at all and just trimmed it as you would any big weed/shrub.

You have to show they had some prior knowledge of the problem to sue.

You'd be better going after your surveyor.

This doesn't sound like "no proof" to me:

stanwan said:

I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top

I hadn't read that, but even so, it is only proof of garden maintenance and composting - not proof that they wilfully concealed a known problem (although smells fishy). If neighbours can confirm he knew or they also had a problem. you may have a case. But your recourse is STILL with the surveyor - he is an expert who should have spotted it and will have an indemnity for just such events.

[BigTom85]

To be honest, for a small bit like this, I'd want to sort the problem myself, and quietly, assuming you ever want to actually sell the place in the future...

So yes a bit of ball ache, a few quid and some perseverance, but the best option imho.

Unless you know where the seller lives - that way you know where to take the clippings!

[Chrisgr31]

Mr GrimNasty said:

furtive said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. It appears to be a lone plant, quite possible they had no idea what it was at all and just trimmed it as you would any big weed/shrub.

You have to show they had some prior knowledge of the problem to sue.

You'd be better going after your surveyor.

This doesn't sound like "no proof" to me:

stanwan said:

I've dug around and found mounds of concealed cuttings dumped, covered with tarp, and then turfed on top

I hadn't read that, but even so, it is only proof of garden maintenance and composting - not proof that they wilfully concealed a known problem (although smells fishy). If neighbours can confirm he knew or they also had a problem. you may have a case. But your recourse is STILL with the surveyor - he is an expert who should have spotted it and will have an indemnity for just such events.

I guess the surveyors defence is likely to be that at the time of his inspection there was no Knotweed visible because it was winter and the previous owner had cut it down and hidden the evidence. Surveyors dont go round digging up the garden looking for Knotweed.

[dickymint]

OP. GET ON WITH THE JOB! it's getting worse.