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Ray Singh

Original Poster:

2,041 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
I moved into a brand new house in April this year. We have experienced high moisture levels within the property as advised by the builders. This has manifested itself in some items like dining chairs growing mould on them. The builders have informed us that this is due to the house drying out.

In May I purchased a pair of single divan beds for my children. They went from a bunk bed in our old house to separate rooms here, so required beds. I found a good deal on the internet via a company called 'Land of beds' who supplied me with a pair of Sleepezee Divans. These were delivered and my children were sleeping on them for several weeks.

However, a few weeks later we noticed lines of damp parallel to the beds on the walls next to the beds.




We immediately informed the builders who came to check. They bought a moisture meter with them. On checking the walls, the damp area was saturated, but the areas above and below were within normal levels. They then tested the beds themselves and these came back with a very high reading. They kindly supplied me with a report of findings which I sent back to Land of beds.

Land of beds contacted Sleepezee, who in turn employed a company called FIRA http://www.fira.co.uk/ who came to test the beds.
He tested the walls, ceilings and floors of the bedrooms and these showed a moisture level of up to 12%. The best returned readings of between 40% and 70%.His report was based on the beds only and made no mention of the walls at all.

Sleepezee have offered to replace the beds and this will be done in September. However, I am worried about the damage to the walls as this is not drying out even thought the beds have been moved away. My children are also sleeping in these wet beds daily. Could this be harmful?

I bought the beds from Land of beds who have refused to compensate for damage to walls or for any problems to my children. Where do i stand? What can i ask for or what am i entitled to?

hedgefinder

1,429 posts

39 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
just start a small claims case, doesnt cost much and as they were the retailer and liability has already been admitted they wont have a leg to stand on..

danyeates

4,364 posts

91 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
I would try leaving a dehumidifier in the room for a few days. Maybe put the children in the same room for a week and run the dehumidifier without going in the room. Then switch rooms. That should dry it all out.

mondeoman

6,797 posts

135 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Beds are like sponges - being pushed against the walls I'll bet that they've drawn the water out of the walls. But they're being replaced, so you got a result.

Chrisgr31

7,425 posts

124 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
My assumption would be that the beds have drawn the moisture out of the walls, and therefore you have an excellent result.

What are you doing about drying the house out though? I suspect that doors and windows are shut most off the time, so the moisture cannot escape.
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Ray Singh

Original Poster:

2,041 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Window vents are always open and we leave doors and windows open for as much of the time as possible.
Due to security reasons, this is not always possible.


Laurel Green

14,895 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
mondeoman said:
Beds are like sponges - being pushed against the walls I'll bet that they've drawn the water out of the walls. But they're being replaced, so you got a result.
This would be my guess too. If the beds had been that damp (on delivery), I would expect the damp to be felt when unpacking/making the beds for the first time - so all in all, a good result.

Also, the body can lose up to two pints of water a night so, leave the beds unmade until the evening, thus allowing them to air.

Ray Singh

Original Poster:

2,041 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Laurel Green said:
This would be my guess too. If the beds had been that damp (on delivery), I would expect the damp to be felt when unpacking/making the beds for the first time - so all in all, a good result.

Also, the body can lose up to two pints of water a night so, leave the beds unmade until the evening, thus allowing them to air.
I am confused. Are you telling me that the -ve dampness of the bed has caused the moisture to come out of the wall? effectively 'pulled' the moisture to the surface?
This seems odd as the beds are measuring 70% on the calibrated FIRA/FIMA damp meter....

I have other beds in the house that have been here for a similar length of time that showed a 10-15% moisture level.

Strange....

Laurel Green

14,895 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Ray Singh said:
I am confused. Are you telling me that the -ve dampness of the bed has caused the moisture to come out of the wall? effectively 'pulled' the moisture to the surface?
This seems odd as the beds are measuring 70% on the calibrated FIRA/FIMA damp meter....

I have other beds in the house that have been here for a similar length of time that showed a 10-15% moisture level.

Strange....
Could easily be so but, as said, is a guess. Not easy to say without inspection of room.
Also, as to orientation of said room/floor/layout. Could the wall be wicking from the floor, etc. Is the room in shade for most/all of the day?

Mind, as already said, with 70% would have thought dampness would be detected when unpacking.

69 coupe

1,595 posts

80 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
I wouldn't expect beds to be that damp your kids body heat would also dry the beds out to a certain extent every night.

Seem more like your house has a damp problem, i'd get an independent building surveyor to inspect & not one who just relies on a damp meter.
How long does your house builder expect it to take to dry out? shouldn't they have used dehumidifiers before handing you the keys?.
Good result on the beds though thumbup

Blakeatron

1,056 posts

42 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Sorry - unsure on the beds, but in a 'new build' there should not be that much drying out needed!?

roofer

1,724 posts

80 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Blakeatron said:
Sorry - unsure on the beds, but in a 'new build' there should not be that much drying out needed!?
Agreed, if the walls were that damp, the paint would have dropped off. And there's no water involved in making a bed, were they left out in the rain??

b0rk

212 posts

15 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
What is the form of construction of the house? twin leaf masonry? timber frame? other? A dwelling built to current regs should not have a damp or moisture problem and certainly should not still be "drying out" four months post occupation.

I'd suspect there is something wrong the building in those particular rooms, missing DPC/DPM, leaking roof, leaking cladding, leaking pipe work. Are rooms upper floor or ground and do they share any walls? is only one wall "damp" in both cases? is it the same wall or separate.

I just can't see a "wet bed" wicking to a wall as the bed should be warmer than the wall. The other way I round as mentioned by others seems possible but even then a bit unusual and 70% moisture on damp meter should result in mattress feeling cold/wet/damp.

Ray Singh

Original Poster:

2,041 posts

99 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
The beds felt cold and damp to the touch, but i never thought that it would be 70% wet.

To answer some of the questions, The beds are in separate rooms. The pictures showing the the damps are not of shared walls, they are completely separate.

I received an e-mail from Land of Beds this evening:

Sleepeezee will be looking to deliver your new beds to you week commencing 3rd Sept.

The delivery team will contact you before to arrange a suitable date and time.

In regards to the compensation issue, Sleepeezee have since contacted FIRA to discuss the findings of the report in more detail as they could not believe that the mattresses would indicate a moisture reading of 70% (this would basically mean the mattresses were like a wet sponge and would be dripping water - basically there is no way the mattresses would of been made like this).

The FIRA equipment has since been tested and found to be faulty - Therefore, FIRA have with-drawn their original findings and have offered to go back out and retest the beds.

By the time Sleepeezee had received the withdrawal by FIRA they had already put your new beds in to production so they informed us that as a gesture of good will they will still exchange the beds for you.

The problem is if FIRA go back out and find the beds to show and acceptable level of moisture then we are worried that Sleepeezee may with-draw their offer to replace.

As a company we believe that the mattresses can not be responsible for the marks on the wall and think the problem lives within the building itself - you noted that you have recently had work done on the walls and pushing any furniture up against a newly plastered wall could cause slight marks.

Therefore, we think in this situation it would be best to except Sleepeezee offer and check with your builders about the situation with putting furniture up against a newly plastered wall.

surveyor

4,549 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Ray Singh said:
The beds felt cold and damp to the touch, but i never thought that it would be 70% wet.

To answer some of the questions, The beds are in separate rooms. The pictures showing the the damps are not of shared walls, they are completely separate.

I received an e-mail from Land of Beds this evening:

Sleepeezee will be looking to deliver your new beds to you week commencing 3rd Sept.

The delivery team will contact you before to arrange a suitable date and time.

In regards to the compensation issue, Sleepeezee have since contacted FIRA to discuss the findings of the report in more detail as they could not believe that the mattresses would indicate a moisture reading of 70% (this would basically mean the mattresses were like a wet sponge and would be dripping water - basically there is no way the mattresses would of been made like this).

The FIRA equipment has since been tested and found to be faulty - Therefore, FIRA have with-drawn their original findings and have offered to go back out and retest the beds.

By the time Sleepeezee had received the withdrawal by FIRA they had already put your new beds in to production so they informed us that as a gesture of good will they will still exchange the beds for you.

The problem is if FIRA go back out and find the beds to show and acceptable level of moisture then we are worried that Sleepeezee may with-draw their offer to replace.

As a company we believe that the mattresses can not be responsible for the marks on the wall and think the problem lives within the building itself - you noted that you have recently had work done on the walls and pushing any furniture up against a newly plastered wall could cause slight marks.

Therefore, we think in this situation it would be best to except Sleepeezee offer and check with your builders about the situation with putting furniture up against a newly plastered wall.
All sounds reasonable and logical. So next question is the structure, or your lifestyle. Are the rooms properly ventilated? Is the damp at the same % at top and bottom of wall? Any guttering / downpipes leaking on the outside elevation? Any signs of water ingress in the roof void? What's the roof detail like at the eaves?

D3fender

521 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Modern houses are like greenhouses, excess moisture will not be able to escape without a little help from the new owner.

Moisture in the slab foundation and plasterboard will lead to additional moisture/condensation for the first 3 or 4 months. It is crucial that extractor fans work, that windows are vented (especially at night and weekends when the house is occupied), kitchen and bathroom doors kept closed whilst in use.

Keep an eye on condensation around cold spots like window frames, mould will soon spread if you don't wipe down these areas regularly with a mould and mildew cleaner.

C Lee Farquar

805 posts

85 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
This certainly peculiar!

I assume the moisture readings were taken with a hand held damp meter? Bear in mind that these are calibrated for unpainted timber and cannot tell you the true moisture content of a mattress. As you've stated if it was anywhere near 70% there is no way you could sleep on them.

As a mattress will give off and take moisture according to its surroundings, unless it's still wrapped in plastic it would have dried out in equilibrium with its surroundings since April. If a child wets a bed, it's dry within a day or so if you stand it up to air.

Combined with the other information you've given, particularly the mouldy chairs, it seems likely you have excess residual moisture within the house.




Gareth79

2,620 posts

115 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
C Lee Farquar said:
This certainly peculiar!

I assume the moisture readings were taken with a hand held damp meter? Bear in mind that these are calibrated for unpainted timber and cannot tell you the true moisture content of a mattress. As you've stated if it was anywhere near 70% there is no way you could sleep on them.

As a mattress will give off and take moisture according to its surroundings, unless it's still wrapped in plastic it would have dried out in equilibrium with its surroundings since April. If a child wets a bed, it's dry within a day or so if you stand it up to air.

Combined with the other information you've given, particularly the mouldy chairs, it seems likely you have excess residual moisture within the house.
I was also going to comment that any bed base wet enough to cause moisture on the walls would certainly be wet to the touch, and even if delivered wet would have dried out within a week anyway. Likewise a normal mattress cannot hold water except in the outer cover, and any dampness would instantly soak into the bed sheets, and dry out in a few days anyway.

So IMO it just seems impossible that either they are still causing problems, or that they could ever have held enough water to cause any lasting effects on the walls.

eniacs

1 posts

9 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
Hang on, your children have been sleeping in "wet" beds for 2 weeks? No dont think so. Let me guess the guy who measured the bed dampness, measured at the point that was contacting the wall - ie the damp part? So of course, it measured damp because it had been against the damp wall.

The beds were not wet sir, the insulating effect caused a cold spot on the wall which then caused condensation. I used to get it in my room when i was a child. There was no wet bed, nor were there build defects in that house. If i left it for any amount of time, mould would grow. I eventually got a headboard for the bed so that the material did not contact the wall - this solved the problem.

Sorry but the only person responsible is you, and if i were the company who you are blaming, i would take you to the cleaners for all the costs incurred.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
D3fender said:
Modern houses are like greenhouses, excess moisture will not be able to escape without a little help from the new owner.

Moisture in the slab foundation and plasterboard will lead to additional moisture/condensation for the first 3 or 4 months. It is crucial that extractor fans work, that windows are vented (especially at night and weekends when the house is occupied), kitchen and bathroom doors kept closed whilst in use.

Keep an eye on condensation around cold spots like window frames, mould will soon spread if you don't wipe down these areas regularly with a mould and mildew cleaner.
Our house is terrible for this - it think it's mainly due to a lack of air movement. Mould forms behind anything pushed against an outside wall.
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